Zoro vs. Guy: Explained.
I do not think the results of this fight came a much of a surprise. Although for the sake of completionism, I still wanted to explore the different factors that caused this fight to shape the way I wrote it.
I still want people to remember, this story began 3 years before the Konoha Crush. Like Kakashi, Guy is still in his early 20's, and not yet in his prime. My iteration of him has only recently been able to achieve the 7th Celestial Gate, and has 6 years less of training and experience than he displayed during the 4th Great Ninja War. Guy currently has the magnitude of a mid S-class ninja due to his intensity and use of the 7th Gate; something even Kakashi would not plausibly be able to match or counter prior to using his Mangekyo Sharingan.
While on the opposite side, Zoro is in the prime of his life. Here, he has already defeated Mihawk and earned the title as the Greatest Swordsman in the World. He has also fought, defeated or survived encounters with Navy Admirals, Yonko Commanders, possibly even Yonko themselves and other Naruto-shinobi before. He is one of the most dedicated fighters among the Straw Hat Pirate Crew, and possibly their most talented one given his lack of Devil Fruit Powers. He is standing alongside Silvers Rayleigh, Admirals Aokiji and Akainu, and Marco the Phoenix in terms of skill, power, and danger.
Another crucial factor that separates Guy and Zoro is their most notorious and characteristic trait: Personal Training. Both of them unfailingly follow training regimens that are astronomically ridiculous. Both began such intensive training during childhood, dedicating themselves to surpass a personal rival and ascend to become THE best of their time. Zoro and Guy both continuously push their capabilities and skills further and further, over the course of their lifetimes. Applying absolute dedication with extreme intensity and their own distinct creativity; inventing their own moves and developing unique tactics to fight various opponents.
However, duringthis fight, the difference in time and development between them is enormous.
During this chapter, Zoro is aged 34, and Guy is 23. This leaves Zoro with at least 10 years of more training, sparring, and fighting than Guy has. From who they are and how they train, even a single year would make a notable difference between both of these fighters, and a decade would spread this difference even more.
Guy is young and unquestionably a physical powerhouse, but I do not believe his strength and speed and skill would be as developed as they were during the Konoha invasion or the 4th Great War.
Concerning the Celestial Gates specifically, I already explored why Guy would be unlikely to have mastered with too quickly after his father's death. And I believe it would be very out-of-character to depict him cutting-loose during a regular sparring match.
This was sparring, not a fight to the death or a mission. Might Guy himself has a strict set of personal rules to determine when it is necessary to use the Celestial Gates; such as "to protect someone precious to you," or "to protect and maintain one's own ninja-way." Unleashing one of the gates against an opponent simply to test his own capabilities is exactly what he scolded Rock Lee for doing in his first appearance.
As for Zoro, not only are his strength and speed greater than his canon-self, but his skills would also be ridiculously advanced by this stage of his life. I don't think many people would question that Zoro in his prime would have greater physical strength opposed to Might Guy; as even by the timeskip, he appears to be one of the strongest physical fighters around below the league of the Yonko and the Marine Admirals, especially without any Devil-Fruit power to bolster that strength.
While Guy is now a mid S-class ninja due to his intensity and use of the 7th Gate; something Kakashi would have no answer to prior to using his Mangekyo Sharingan. This is part of the reason why Zoro and Robin won the fights, but not the only one.
Their tactical habits:
Roronoa Zoro: He is Skilled, Dangerous, and a True Swordsman. He focuses on swordsmanship primarily and structures the rest of his skills around that, but not drastically overspecialized or unbalanced. He is a true COMPLETE MASTER of his craft, fashioned by his own unmatched training regimen and colossal experience against any fighter that exists. He faces an enemy or situation directly, assessing them continuously and taking the most efficient option to win. Without losing focus or awareness of his enemy or surroundings. Apart from redefining the concept of ridiculous training systems, he has gardened various amounts of skill with different styles outside of his iconic Sentoryu method; using intuition and rigorously perfected skills to fight his opponents.
Zoro can cut through virtually anything and meet any kind of fighter or situation with the same skill-set and composure. While his fighting-style can appear very singular and overspecialized, Zoro is anything but a one-trick pony. The sheer scale and dynamic nature of his capabilities make him devasting against almost anyone or anywhere. Sharpened even further by the fact that Zoro spent literally a lifetime preparing to face people more dangerous than himself. He is incredible because he knows better than to make assumptions, knowing he would eventually face someone better than himself or unexpected situations, rather than assuming such a day would never come.
While not entirely unintelligent, Zoro does not rely on long-term strategy at all; instead he is tactician who balances different options against his opponents and adapts to the needs of the moment and his opponent.
Even against people who have faced different swordsman or try to attack someone's weaknesses, Zoro's willpower, skill, physical might, and more have prevent him from being beaten most of the time.
He can be tricked and out-matched in some cases, but they are very, very rare.
-against Kuma on Thriller Bark and the Navy led by Kizaru on Sabahoady Archipelago.
-being attacked by Z or Shiki the Golden Lion in the films Strong World and One Piece: Z.
-captured by Gild Tesoro's Gold-trap in One Piece: Gold.
Might Guy:
A Devastating Martial Hurricane. He is a very straightforward combatant, who escalates his intensity and power as the situation demands. He is not a very strategic individual but remains aware of his surroundings and focuses on meeting mystical power (ninjutsu and genjutsu) with physical might. This approach makes him exceedingly dangerous no matter who he is fighting, and one of the few characters that can readily depend on a very straight forward method with insane amounts of speed and destruction.
Despite this power though, he does have some shortfalls.
Outside of his lack of aptitude for Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, his most glaring weakness is over dedication to Taijutsu alone. In the Canon, Manga, Anime and novels, Guy has shown some capabilities with Ninjutsu. From the Summoning jutsu to the databooks crediting him with some apptitude to use Fire-style and Lightning-style. But rather than using them as viable options, he appears to use each of them only by necessity opposed to practicality.
He also appears to favour martial-arts weapons to an unbalanced degree. My friends Leaf Ranger and SwordoftheGods both noted that Might Guy avoids using bladed weapons despite how practical such tools could be to his arsenal. The only weapons he has been depicted using are striking weapons like his nunchuks, or the Sanzukon in an Anime Filler.
Might Guy is a dedicated Martial Artist, rather than a utilitarian warrior who will use every weapon in their arsenal indiscriminately. He's not a strategist or a deceptive tactician like Deidara, Ussop or Naruto. Yet his combination of simplicity, versatility and sheer magnitude remains a serious threat no matter who is facing him.
Comparing Them:
Both Zoro and Guy are very similar, as they spent entire lifetimes elevating their physical might and perfecting every skill in their arsenal to the highest levels possible. Both of them prepared to compete with the best and searched for goals to push themselves forward rather than becoming complacent. Neither of them were simple fighters, and both displayed some impressive amounts of creativity during their lives, Zoro by personally inventing his own swordsman-styles and Guy by studying the mechanics of ninjutsu and genjutsu to counter them and finding ways to circumvent Sharingan techniques by looking at his opponent's body.
Both of them are more intuitional than strategic, and their success is largely predicated on their experience and magnitude. Which makes the winner of this fight quite simple to recognize; this fight is one case where whoever has the greater power holds a decisive advantage, and Guy is still a far-cry from the sheer magnitude from One Piece's Best-of-the-Best. The Yonko, the Admirals, Hawkeyes Mihawk, Yonko Commanders such as Marco and Katakuri, Monkey D. Garp, Sengoku the Buddha, and even Doflamingo and Fifth Emepror Luffy. While Guy is unquestionably dangerous and powerful against Shinobi and could give the Akatsuki and Sannin a run for their money, he is nowhere close to the Greatest Swordsman in the World.
There are two additional factors that separates Guy and Zoro, however.
First, their stamina, tenacity and longevity. The Celestial Gates do bring a terrifying amount of power and output to a fight, but at the expense of a user's physical stamina and long-term endurance. Once Guy starts to use the Gates, he needs to overwhelm an opponent quickly or risk becoming too crippled by the backlash to continue a fight. Guy's endurance and stamina are very close to Naruto's; while his MO on taijutsu prevents chakra-exhaustion from being a serious factor in any fight. Guy can outlast anyone, and beating him through attrition is virtually impossible. BUT he never uses this advantage, anywhere.
Victory through attrition is still victory. But Might Guy and Rock Lee have a bad habit of crippling themselves by using the Celestial Gates too readily, rather than simply outlasting someone they fight.
By contrast, Zoro's technique is much more conservative, and the nature of his capabilities prevent the kind of exhaustion that Shinobi have from being a problem. He can match and even surpass Might Guy and possibly Luffy's output without the kind of backlash their powers cause. Beyond that, Roronoa Zoro is a Fuckin Tank. The amount of physical injury and exhaustion he has survived and persevered through even puts Might Guy to shame. Plus, he has literally travelled and fought continuously for entire days with barely any rest or relief.
The Alabasta Arc, where he travelled with the crew from Rainbase to Alubarna throughout the night with no sleep and fought with Mr. 1 and dozens of other Baroque Workd agents in the battle.
Water 7 Arc: There Zoro was defeated by CP9, travelled through Aqua Lagoona to Enies Lobby, cut through three obstacles on the way, fought through the Island defenses to reach the Tower of Justice, handled both Kaku and Jabra before defeating the former, and defeated dozens of Marine Captains and Commanders almost immediately afterwards. All without any real break, sleep or otherwise across a theoretical 48 hours.
Fighting against the Humadrills on Hawkeye's island for weeks after being sent there by Kuma. While on Fishman Island, he reflected how he literally fought with Humadrills and with Hawkeyes himself EVERY DAY for 2 Years.
Even compared to canon Might Guy, Zoro's physical tolerance, endurance and tenacity can outclass the Jonin, although the matter of who has the greater pain tolerance is very relative. While Guy's habit of sabotaging his own stamina and combative longevity is a serious problem against Zoro's more energy-conservative skillsets and the swordsman's ridiculous amounts of endurance.
Second, Both of them face highly unusually and esoteric powers or opponents in their lives. Yet while Guy would increase his powers or use a different tool as necessitated by the situation, the range of methods he is willing to use is unnecessarily limited. This weakness can be highlighted the best in his students.
In the Chunin Exams, Neji, Tenten and Rock Lee are all highly skilled in-canon. But they depend on the nature of their techniques or methods to bring victory, and use their skills is very linear and direct ways. When they run into difficulty, each of them would only increase their power, or turn to a more advanced version of their skills, rather than being smart and using a more creative way to fight.
Neji limited himself to the Hyuga traditions, rather than taking full advantage of his potential to explore different techniques. He would fight very defensively, escalating the nature and scale of his Juken techniques, but failed to comprehend how their mechanics could be used against him. Such as exhausting his chakra or giving Kidomaru the initiative. In all of his moves, Neji would attack his opponent's chakra network directly, rather than using the environment as a weapon or using kunai, paper bombs and traps.
Tenten depended on the nature of her weapons and her accuracy to win, rather than finding more more creative way to use everything in her arsenal. Against Temari, she increased the scale and number of weapons thrown at her rather than change her approach to fit the opponent or find better ways to use her various weapons in-tandem with each other. Even in the fillers, Tenten relies on the innate nature of her individual tools rather than finding a better way to use them. She doesn't us elemtanl chakra with her weapons like Asuma, nor learn clone techniques to attack in different ways simultaneously, nor does she use tricks or creative traps against her opponents like Ussop.
Rock Lee uses the same techniques everywhere, and escalates the magnitude of his speed or strength to counter an opponent. He doesn't use the environment as a weapon or even uses alternative weapons himself or tries to outlast his opponents. From training with Guy, Lee could depend on evasion or his endurance to outlast anyone until they ran into chakra-exhaustion or fatigue, but he always goes for a decisive win rather than a war of attrition.
This was actually one way that he could have used to defeat Gaara. Lee's baseline speed without his weights forced Gaara to resort to his sand-armour. But instead of playing it safe and outlasting his opponent first, Lee was too impatient and started to use the Celestial Gates. Even after the Primary Lotus failed and he started to recover, he went straight back to the Gates rather than being more conservative.
While Neji outgrew these limitations, Tenten and Lee and him represent the perfection of the art, used as blunt instruments. Might Guy has greater skill and experience than them, but works to overwhelming his opponents with a disappointingly limited range of skills and approaches. He doesn't even use Paper-bombs or jokes and words to misdirect people but relies on his core attributes elevated to an extremely high degree. The Perfection of the Art, wielded Masterfully.
While Zoro does have many similarities, he is also more of a pragmatist. Exploring different ways to use his swords, his body, and even intimidation against various opponents. He even invented ways to use he swords to attack from a distance, employed various offensive moves for defense, and mostly escalates as the situation requires rather than out of dramatic-flare. He is a Power Tool, Wielded Artfully and Creatively.
Haki:
And Now the Elephant in the room: how One Piece Haki could work against Konoha Shinobi.
I will only explore the different topics relating to this fight here. The mechanics relating to Haki/Chakra/Devil Fruits in a later chapter. While Busoshuko Haki was not utilized too heavily in this sight outside of strengthening Zoro's Swords, I did believe that Kenbushoku, or "Observation," Haki would have a much greater impact.
Observation Haki could allow Zoro to anticipate all of Guy's actions with complete clarity, due to the Blue Beast's very straight-forward approach to fighting. Every move Guy made would be sensed by Zoro milliseconds before Guy even moved, allowing him to anticipate and either stop or counter his opponent. However, Guy's own fighting style also played a role in this edge.
Guy is a very focused and deliberate fighter. Rather than free-form or improvisational. The Jonin does not rely on misdirection or complex tricks like Naruto does, nor does he apply improvisation or creativity too heavily in the middle of a fight. One scene in the Anime filler even depicts him showing Rock Lee that he plans 50 to 100 moves in advance, using deliberate moves and tactics to control his opponent and the pace of a fight. A deliberate action that any capable user of Kenboshuko Haki could sense very easily.
If Guy adapted a more instinctual approach to fighting, then that advantage would be severely decreased. Similar to Afro Samurai during a fight against a Cyborg version of himself. During that fight, the cyborg had the edge, since he was an exact mirror of the Samurai, but both stronger and faster. But rather than use skill or tricks against the enemy, Afro Samurai recalled his sensei's words:
"Your eyes give you away. Become unpredictable. Strike from your subconscious mind. Even the most masterful opponent will fall to a strike that has no history or reference. The moves that flow from your own individual unique essence will surprise even you."
If someone fought blind or had no idea what results would come from their actions, then maybe they would be able to circumvent any Kenbushoku Haki less than Charlotte Katakuri's prowess.
Guy does not do this, and against Zoro he lacks the magnitude to make this form of Haki irrelevant. Which truly made a crucial difference in the fight once Guy escalated to the 6th Celestial Gate.
The Fight itself:
Concerning the fight itself, I wanted to keep both combatants in-character, avoiding the creativity and strategy from Kakashi and Robin's match and emphasizing more direct approaches, tempered by self-discipline.
Guy would have started out enthusiastic but measured. Probing his opponent before committing too far to a singular attack. I also wanted to add some extra drama to him removing any training weights, and was pleased with the results.
From a technical point, Guy would not want to give Zoro any crippling injuries, and would restrict his attacks accordingly. While Zoro would do the same, using the flat of his blades to block or deflect Guy's strieks instead of cutting his hands, legs and arms with a sharp edge.
Between the pair of them, Guy's personality is much more excitable than Zoro's, and he often dash straight at his opponents or mission. That is why he was mostly the aggressor in the fight while Zoro countered him first, then drove forward to take back control of the fight.
Zoro did hold back a large amount of his true power for the majority of the fight. While this may slightly out of character for his canon-self, who will cut buildings and entire ships apart without a second thought, I wanted to feature him having more discipline and maturity gained from age. When Mihawk first encountered Zoro at the Baratie, the Warlord held-back immensely; using only a small knife to parry Zoro's attacks and stab him, then attack him with his sword at close range opposed to cutting-down Zoro from a distance with an air-slash.
As the Next Greatest Swordsman, I imagine that Zoro would adopt a similar mindset in a regular spar, using minimal effort to match and defeat an opponent rather than overwhelming them immediately with sheer magnitude too immediately or needlessly.
Alternatively, Guy is one of the better characters to fight a non-shinobi like Robin or Zoro, as he favours an adapt-and-overcome approach rather than mentally deconstructing the mechanics of someone's techniques too heavily. Whereas the Third Hokage, Kakashi, Shikamaru Nara, Neji Hyuga, Asuma Sarutobi, or even Jiraya would try to assess and measure their opponents, Guy would press forward and take someone else's feats in-stride without being distracted or confused. Guy would press forward and continue to fight rather than fall-back or give Zoro command over the fight.
It was a little hard to envision how Guy would fight against a swordsman like Zoro. While Kisame and Guy did clash multiples times in the series, the technical differences between Kisame and Zoro are too large to use them as a primary reference. Although the Jonin's use of nunchaku against his swords and Guy's preferences for the weapons made their addition to the spar a very simple decision.
I did make Guy use some creative moves, like wrapping the chains of his nuchucks around Zoro's sword to disarm him. Yet, Zoro himself has shown to be very familiar with various types of weapons, from kuruki-knives to bo-staffs, clubs and more. Outside of speculation, during his time training under Mihawk, he would fight against Humandrills using just about every different type of weapon and technique that exists. I did not find Zoro knowing different ways to counter nunchaku's too difficult to image.
After Guy began using the Gates, I decided to have Zoro take a cautious approach. Probing and assessing his opponent's capabilities in a defensive role, then becoming more dominant against Guy. This also had the ulterior motive of emphasizing Zoro's defensive skill, rather than solely his offense.
After the time-skip, Zoro rarely ever took a single hit against his enemies in the New World. Prior to the Manga's Wano Arc, he has yet been injured at all. This is a testimony to how much growth he made during the Timeskip, as while he did face many dangerous opponents in the Paradise Half, he also showed some weakness by lacking the skill to avoid taking too many hits. For half of the series, there are more showings on his endurance and fortitude rather than his defensive skill. After the crew reunited, Zoro's defensive technique had been overhauled, resulting in him taking far less hits than before and not sustaining any injuries against Pica or Vice-Admiral Momonga.
Even Hawkeyes Mihawk came out of the Whitebeard War without any injuries whatsoever. I decided to build on this and give Zoro some greater defensive skill rather than solely increasing his offensive output. Or overemphasizing Haki and strength.
My Fanfic-friend and fellow writer Leaf Ranger also noted that many Naruto characters, especially Jonin, would usually have the advantage in physical speed against other Anime fighters due to the standards they are held at and how they utilize certain techniques. I took this into account quite heavily, and emphasized it rather than focusing only on strength or technique during the fight between Guy and Zoro.
As stated earlier, Guy has not accumulated the same prowess he would have by the time of the Konoha invasion. While within One Piece lore, the 6-Powers move Shade is comparable to the Body Flicker, and many different fighters can match this through timing, anticipation or their own developed speed. While Luffy's 2nd Gear has some visual similarities with Rock Lee's depicted speed against Gaara in the Chunin Exams. Even Pacifista lasers and bullets can be dodged by certain characters in One Piece, which make the topic of who has greater speed a very relative one.
In fact, I do believe that One Piece has the singular fastest character between both franchises. Admiral Kizaru, who by the nature of his devil-fruit, can move at the Speed of Light.
Concerning Zoro specifically, he was able to match Agent Kaku's speed and Shade technique at Enies Lobby, and narrowly evade Kuma's lasers at Thriller Bark. While Silver's Rayleigh was able to counter Kizaru at Sabahoady, deflecting his beam before it could kill Zoro. At that point, Rayleigh himself was quite elderly, and even admitted to have avoided any serious fights or years, or even decades. His speed and reflexes would likely have been lower than during his time with the Roger Pirates, while as mentioned earlier, Zoro is either on-par or slightly better than Rayleigh in his prime. As far as I know.
Subsequently, while the advantage would be divided on a case-by-case basis; Zoro at his prime being able to match Guy's own baseline speed, but would struggle against the 6th Gate and 7th Gate through the mechanics explained in the chapter. This is my interpretation, and if someone disagrees, I invite them to express it in a PM, which I would certainly respond to.
However, all that Zoro can do is match the Celestial Gates, not surpass them. I deliberately shaped the fight so that at close-range, Zoro would be entirely defensive against the 6th and 7th Gate, with no time or space to attack or counter Might Guy. The 7th Gate especially pushed Zoro to his limits, and without the accumulated proficiency of his strength, Haki, reflexes, and techniques ingrained so deeply into his body. He would have been defeated by those attacks.
Even in the 6th Gate, Guy's feats of speed can still be countered by Zoro upsetting his own timing and perception. The enemy of Speed, is always Timing, which makes a person's rhythm, pace, and composure so critical to their movements. Zoro was not necessarily faster than Guy, but by having better timing, he was successful in withstanding him.
For a frame of reference, during the 4th Great Shinobi War, Madara Uchiha was able to evade Guy's 7th-Gate empowered physical attacks with only a single Rinnegan and the powers of the Ten-Tails Jinchuriki. But the Legendary Uchiha was completely out-paced by all of Guy's attacks while in the 8th Gate. Zoro is very dangerous, but I did not believe it would be authentic to place him on-par with a 10-Tails Jinchuriki in this fight.
Otherwise, I do not believe that Zoro's greater strength over Guy should come as too much of a surprise. And his skill to match and deflect the Hirudora attack was a dramatic way to end the fight.
Hirudora itself is also not truly a unique attack when compared to One Piece. It's mechanics are actually quite similar to those of Zoro's own Calibre-Phoenix attacks, or other slicing-air strikes from various swordsman; using compressed air as a highly deliberate and destructive weapon based on the speed and technique of the strike. While the results and magnitude of Hirudora's destructive power can be out-done by the Shockwaves produced by the Tremor-Tremor Fruit.
In Canon, Zoro himself will undoubtedly face this power, eventually, once the Straw Hats and their allies confront the Blackbeard Pirates.
While on the opposite side, Guy himself would likely believe that someone deflecting his attack is nearly unfathomable. Even during the Shippuden series, the Biju and Madara Uchiha had to block or tank the attack, rather than counter or deflect it. It is the most powerful move in Guy's arsenal beneath the 8th Gate.
Zoro countered it without any serious strain, and immediately followed-up with cutting-down Guy to end the spar.
Conclusion:
In conclusion, I wanted to create a reasonable fight between both Guy and Zoro. Staying true to both characters and within a relatable and semi-logical realm of how their respective skills would match against each other. I will confess, I also wanted to establish that Zoro is ridiculously Over Powered, without going overboard.
To be clear, I also have no doubt that this will happen by the end of One Piece. As Roronoa Zoro is a highly motivated prodigal talent, that has been tempered through experience, loss, suffering, success, gains, and more. He has followed the life he dedicated himself to with no regrets, hesitance, or second thoughts. He could possibly become even become more OP than even Red Haired Shanks by the end of the series.
While Guy is still a very formidable fighter, he also has more growth to make and would not turn to the 8th Gate here. I have plans for him, especially relating to additional growth from his new "Lifelong Rival," and some other Straw Hats who will eventually come to Konohagakure.