God.com
* * *
We have all met Edward Shaw, but we do not at present know him. He liked to think of himself as a simple man, Edward did, as a man who asked little of the world and who gave of himself without complaint. These were simple values, befitting his background of a large, deeply religious family. This contrasted, of course, with his understanding of the complexities of computers, with the familiarity with the world of the internet. But even these things were simple things, really. Computers were digital; they worked or they didn't, and figuring out why was a joy to Edward, a pleasure.
People were that way too. In college he had been quite active in the campus crusade, had preached to gospel to the sinners who filled the campus of the large Midwestern land-grant university he attended. There were the saved, the Christians, and then there were the drunken, promiscuous kids who had rejected God's word and God's loving plan. He saw as some of these were eventually saved, as Jesus led them to recovery from their addictions to alcohol, to drugs, to immorality. And from these new, saved friends Edward had learned two very important things: first, that anyone could be saved by the love of Jesus, and second, that there was no limit to the depths that those who did not believe could fall.
It was easy, in this simple world, to keep his faith. You preached morality and you behaved morally. You shunned those who might corrupt you and you prepared for the inevitable rapture and tribulation that would precede Christ's return. And as a reward for this, God had sent him Rebecca, who was as fine a Christian wife as could be imagined, who cooked and cleaned and bore him fine children, who raised and taught them the fine family values that were so rare in the wickedness of secular America.
They, his children, were the hope of the future. It would be they, through their acceptance and preaching of the Ministry of Christ, who brought the multitudes from sin.
Most of them, anyway. This was important.
They, his children, were why today, Edward Shaw came to Eric Camden. For Eric was a man of God, a believer, a Minister. Eric was his ally in the struggle with evil. Eric could help him.
#
"Look. Read it."
Eric let his gaze move to the screen of Edward's computer. They were on the Shaw website, on the message board.
The entry was long; Eric moved into the comfortable chair in front of the screen. He didn't know much about the internet; after a bad experience a few years ago they had pulled the plug on it in the house, and he rarely used the connection at the church. But he had heard from Edward about his website, designed to reach out to the world with the loving message of Christ, and he had been meaning to get the address from his friend so he could take a look.
Now he was.
It was a well designed site, a testament to just how good Edward was at his job. And as a part of the outreach Edward had added a message board, had invited the comments of the world he hoped to save.
And now he had asked Eric to come and take a look.
I need a Minister, Eric. I need an authority.
Why?
I've got a poster who's giving me trouble.
Can't you ban him?
I could, but that's not the function of the site. I need an authority who can take him down a few pegs.
And so Eric had come, and so now Eric read.
#
"Ah, the Bible. Quite a bunch of books by any standard, in my opinion. I've stated in the other thread that I feel the Bible is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, which I believe is to be expected because it is not a single work but a collection of works. Unlike my atheist friends, who love to point at the inconsistencies and contradictions and claim that these invalidate it, as I've grown older I've grown to appreciate them as the best part of the Bible. This is because they make the Bible challenging; it's one of those marvelous works that you cannot read easily and that you cannot read without thinking. I've never quite understood why people feel it needs to be infallible. If there's any one thing I can recommend to people who look at the Bible, it's to read and use not only those sections that say things you agree with, but to seek out and read and wrestle with those that might offend you (Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac, God's behavior in Exodus, etc.), or which seem quite incomprehensible (God's behavior in Jonah, some of Jesus' parables and statements). You might, as I have, find yourself at odds with God or Jesus or a Patriarch or two, and that's all right. Because I think you will also find that the Bible made you struggle with questions you might have otherwise never considered, and you'll be the better for it. If I may lapse into theology for a moment, I have this hunch that this was the way God and Jesus and those Prophets intended it to be, but of course I haven't found any way to prove this."
#
Eric raised a hand, rested his chin in his hand. Edward noted this.
"What do you think?"
"Interesting view."
"And heresy. But I've had heretics before; they're just loud atheists and we run them off pretty quickly. This one's trouble. He claims to love the Bible, but he doesn't believe in it. There's a ton of other posts, too. In one he called God a murderer."
Eric turned and looked up at Edward.
"A murderer?"
"Says he murdered the first-born of Egypt. Then he says he can still love God anyway, because he thinks the Exodus is just fiction, meant to tell us that not even God is above being corrupted by power. He thinks God presents himself as flawed so people will learn to think for themselves."
"Hm. Interesting."
Edward's hand was opening and closing now into a fist. "I've tired everything, Eric; this guy doesn't care that he's going straight to hell when the tribulation comes, and he's going to drag down who knows how many other people with this. I need to stop him, Eric. You know the Bible better than I do. I need you to shoot down his arguments."
Eric looked back at the screen, scrolled down to the poster's next contribution, read it.
#
"There is ample evidence in the biblical text that rather than follow God's edicts blindly, we are in fact expected to question and evaluate them. I am certain you are aware of the passage in Genesis 18:22-33, in which Abraham correctly questions God's decision to destroy Sodom: "Shall not the Judge of all the Earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25) We may and I feel should ask the same question of God if we have moral qualms about his commands; and I consider it a moral wrong to condemn men and women to rigid roles which prevent them from reaching their full potential as human beings, created in God's image."
#
Edward snorted as he read the passage. "Insane. What kind of a person questions God like this?"
A clever one, Eric thought. Cagey. He sighed and spoke.
"Maybe you're responding the wrong way," he said.
"What do you mean?"
"You've challenged him with the Bible. But he knows the Bible, Ed. Look at this post here; he even knows Hebrew. He'll match every argument you can come up with, and until he gets some faith, you'll never win the argument."
Edward sighed. "So what do I do? If I ban him it'll look like I'm taking the easy way out, and I would be."
Eric chuckled. "Simple. You challenge his faith, not his Bible. He's a human being, Ed. Every human being has something they're afraid of, something they're ashamed of. Find out what that is; start asking personal questions. Get in deep. Find out his insecurities, his pain, and never let them go. Once you know what hurts him, you can make him realize that he has sinned, just like we all have. Then you can minister to him. And once you bring him around to Christ, all that knowledge he has about the Bible will be a weapon for God, instead of being used against him."
For the first time Edward smiled.
"I like that, Eric. That's good. That's really good."
Eric smiled back.
"Glad to help."
* * *
We have all met Edward Shaw, but we do not at present know him. He liked to think of himself as a simple man, Edward did, as a man who asked little of the world and who gave of himself without complaint. These were simple values, befitting his background of a large, deeply religious family. This contrasted, of course, with his understanding of the complexities of computers, with the familiarity with the world of the internet. But even these things were simple things, really. Computers were digital; they worked or they didn't, and figuring out why was a joy to Edward, a pleasure.
People were that way too. In college he had been quite active in the campus crusade, had preached to gospel to the sinners who filled the campus of the large Midwestern land-grant university he attended. There were the saved, the Christians, and then there were the drunken, promiscuous kids who had rejected God's word and God's loving plan. He saw as some of these were eventually saved, as Jesus led them to recovery from their addictions to alcohol, to drugs, to immorality. And from these new, saved friends Edward had learned two very important things: first, that anyone could be saved by the love of Jesus, and second, that there was no limit to the depths that those who did not believe could fall.
It was easy, in this simple world, to keep his faith. You preached morality and you behaved morally. You shunned those who might corrupt you and you prepared for the inevitable rapture and tribulation that would precede Christ's return. And as a reward for this, God had sent him Rebecca, who was as fine a Christian wife as could be imagined, who cooked and cleaned and bore him fine children, who raised and taught them the fine family values that were so rare in the wickedness of secular America.
They, his children, were the hope of the future. It would be they, through their acceptance and preaching of the Ministry of Christ, who brought the multitudes from sin.
Most of them, anyway. This was important.
They, his children, were why today, Edward Shaw came to Eric Camden. For Eric was a man of God, a believer, a Minister. Eric was his ally in the struggle with evil. Eric could help him.
#
"Look. Read it."
Eric let his gaze move to the screen of Edward's computer. They were on the Shaw website, on the message board.
The entry was long; Eric moved into the comfortable chair in front of the screen. He didn't know much about the internet; after a bad experience a few years ago they had pulled the plug on it in the house, and he rarely used the connection at the church. But he had heard from Edward about his website, designed to reach out to the world with the loving message of Christ, and he had been meaning to get the address from his friend so he could take a look.
Now he was.
It was a well designed site, a testament to just how good Edward was at his job. And as a part of the outreach Edward had added a message board, had invited the comments of the world he hoped to save.
And now he had asked Eric to come and take a look.
I need a Minister, Eric. I need an authority.
Why?
I've got a poster who's giving me trouble.
Can't you ban him?
I could, but that's not the function of the site. I need an authority who can take him down a few pegs.
And so Eric had come, and so now Eric read.
#
"Ah, the Bible. Quite a bunch of books by any standard, in my opinion. I've stated in the other thread that I feel the Bible is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, which I believe is to be expected because it is not a single work but a collection of works. Unlike my atheist friends, who love to point at the inconsistencies and contradictions and claim that these invalidate it, as I've grown older I've grown to appreciate them as the best part of the Bible. This is because they make the Bible challenging; it's one of those marvelous works that you cannot read easily and that you cannot read without thinking. I've never quite understood why people feel it needs to be infallible. If there's any one thing I can recommend to people who look at the Bible, it's to read and use not only those sections that say things you agree with, but to seek out and read and wrestle with those that might offend you (Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac, God's behavior in Exodus, etc.), or which seem quite incomprehensible (God's behavior in Jonah, some of Jesus' parables and statements). You might, as I have, find yourself at odds with God or Jesus or a Patriarch or two, and that's all right. Because I think you will also find that the Bible made you struggle with questions you might have otherwise never considered, and you'll be the better for it. If I may lapse into theology for a moment, I have this hunch that this was the way God and Jesus and those Prophets intended it to be, but of course I haven't found any way to prove this."
#
Eric raised a hand, rested his chin in his hand. Edward noted this.
"What do you think?"
"Interesting view."
"And heresy. But I've had heretics before; they're just loud atheists and we run them off pretty quickly. This one's trouble. He claims to love the Bible, but he doesn't believe in it. There's a ton of other posts, too. In one he called God a murderer."
Eric turned and looked up at Edward.
"A murderer?"
"Says he murdered the first-born of Egypt. Then he says he can still love God anyway, because he thinks the Exodus is just fiction, meant to tell us that not even God is above being corrupted by power. He thinks God presents himself as flawed so people will learn to think for themselves."
"Hm. Interesting."
Edward's hand was opening and closing now into a fist. "I've tired everything, Eric; this guy doesn't care that he's going straight to hell when the tribulation comes, and he's going to drag down who knows how many other people with this. I need to stop him, Eric. You know the Bible better than I do. I need you to shoot down his arguments."
Eric looked back at the screen, scrolled down to the poster's next contribution, read it.
#
"There is ample evidence in the biblical text that rather than follow God's edicts blindly, we are in fact expected to question and evaluate them. I am certain you are aware of the passage in Genesis 18:22-33, in which Abraham correctly questions God's decision to destroy Sodom: "Shall not the Judge of all the Earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25) We may and I feel should ask the same question of God if we have moral qualms about his commands; and I consider it a moral wrong to condemn men and women to rigid roles which prevent them from reaching their full potential as human beings, created in God's image."
#
Edward snorted as he read the passage. "Insane. What kind of a person questions God like this?"
A clever one, Eric thought. Cagey. He sighed and spoke.
"Maybe you're responding the wrong way," he said.
"What do you mean?"
"You've challenged him with the Bible. But he knows the Bible, Ed. Look at this post here; he even knows Hebrew. He'll match every argument you can come up with, and until he gets some faith, you'll never win the argument."
Edward sighed. "So what do I do? If I ban him it'll look like I'm taking the easy way out, and I would be."
Eric chuckled. "Simple. You challenge his faith, not his Bible. He's a human being, Ed. Every human being has something they're afraid of, something they're ashamed of. Find out what that is; start asking personal questions. Get in deep. Find out his insecurities, his pain, and never let them go. Once you know what hurts him, you can make him realize that he has sinned, just like we all have. Then you can minister to him. And once you bring him around to Christ, all that knowledge he has about the Bible will be a weapon for God, instead of being used against him."
For the first time Edward smiled.
"I like that, Eric. That's good. That's really good."
Eric smiled back.
"Glad to help."