The Writer Games (Or Something)

It can take decades to write a masterpiece, and years to plan it- so see what a couple of amateurs come up with in 15 minutes after a prompt. College Fool, Couer Al'Alran, and the Jaune story concepts that followed.

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Coeur's Prompt- Meet the Arcs -Okay, she could do this... Jaune and her had been dating for ages. Meeting his family wasn't going to be difficult. Just seven sisters... and his mother... and father.

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C.F.'s Fill:

Title: Meet the Family
Summary: Ruby thought the hard was long over. She'd gotten her team's approval. Her Dad's approval. Yang's approval. She'd even broken through Jaune's obliviousness and gotten his approval, which was kind of important for dating him. So meeting his family should be smooth sailing… right?

It's the senior year of Beacon, the semester before graduation. Jaune and Ruby have been dating for some time, starting some time around/after the Cinder/White Fang crisis of their freshman year. Typical romcom-worthy backstory which they look back and laugh at, including Jaune's obliviousness and the approval of Ruby's team and family. Things are comfortable, and with graduation in the bag and right around the corner, Ruby's started to think about the future and wonder/hope if/how Jaune will be a part of it. Though neither of them have broached the topic, Ruby's thoughts are turning towards marriage.

After far too long away from home, and after they learned of the Lancaster relationship, Jaune and Ruby go to visit Jaune's family over the equivalent of spring break. Jaune is excited, since it's the first time he'll have seen all his family since he ran away from home, and Ruby's excited for her chance to meet and impress his parents. The night before they're to arrive, Jaune and Ruby share a hotel room where the dynamics of their relationship are laid out- very close, but non-intimate. It started by propriety- Ruby was a minor until recently, neither wanted an unplanned pregnancy to ruin their school/graduation plans, the protective inclinations of Team RWBY- and it's kept by habit, and by Jaune not making a move even though they share a bed a cuddle. Despite their time together, and the physical gestures, there's still a certain distance- such as when Jaune gets embarrassed by Ruby shuffles through his packed clothes and finds a small box amongst his small clothes.

While Jaune misses/ignores Ruby's subtle suggestion to have sex, to take their relationship to the next level (and not just in meeting the parents), he is perceptive enough to spot Ruby's unease. Ruby keeps quiet on part of it- not broaching the topic of the future of their relationship post-graduation- but admits to nerves for his family. Jaune reassures her that he's sure they'll be eager to meet his number nine girl- and here's where the other dynamic of their relationship is pointed out. Jaune puts family first, then others- and so with a mother and seven sisters, even his girlfriend is number 9 on his Top Ten list of women. (Tenth is Pyrrha.) It's an old joke, but it emphasizes to Ruby that she's still 'outside,' and wondering how she can get in closer. Ruby's goal is to make a good impression, in hopes that the family's support will help seal the deal with her own relationship with Jaune.

Ruby and Jaune arrive at the Arcs. It's a relatively isolated home in a small town on the frontier. Jaune's family emerge and the parents greet Jaune warmly even as they're more polite and reserved towards Ruby. Jaune introduces his parents and his seven sisters, who are of varying ages- half are older, but half are younger. Jaune introduces them all, and part of the sisters introduction is that they're thematically linked to the seven sins and Jaune's seven Beacon friends: Envy, Avarice, Wrath, Sloth, Gluttony, Lust, and Pride. (They also have thematic ties with Jaune's friends: Ruby, Weiss, Ren, Blake, Nora, Yang, and Pyrrha.) While the sisters are warm for Jaune, unlike the parents they are far cooler and even cold towards Ruby. It quickly becomes clear to Ruby that they're the ones she'll have to win over. An initial family dinner sets out the various dynamics of the sisters.

Pride, the oldest sister (and far older than Jaune), is the Alpha Girl who runs the sisterhood and keeps them in line. Big on the Arcs family pride, and one of Jaune's role models, and a Huntress herself. Lust, the second oldest, is the party-girl, much like Yang's reputation except more proven conquests. Once brought shame for sleeping around on the family name, she's been married multiple times. Avarice is the struggling breadwinner who's trying to keep a well-paying job- and also married, though likely for money rather than love, she's the one who paid for/supported Jaune while he was in school. She's only selfless for family, and is used to and expects exploitation by others, especially those who want to take advantage of the Arc name somehow. Gluttony and Sloth are the underachieving twins. Wrath is a (younger) adolescent who, at the time of the story, is going through her period- though by reputation she's the quietly simmering righteous-anger sort anyway, and tears into Jaune for lying his way to Beacon. And finally there's Envy, the youngest- who doesn't talk much, but takes an instantly competitive tone with Ruby over her favorite Big Bro's attention.

Dinner is challenging, with subtle slights and challenges by the sisters, which Ruby tries to rise above and Jaune comes to her defense by scolding one of the younger ones. Jaune's mother and father are polite, but reserved. When the evening ends, Jaune and Ruby retire- to different rooms. Jaune is dragged away by Envy to his old childhood room and so that the two of them can catch up, while Ruby is given a guest room. It's a massive bed, easily big enough for two, and has far too many mattresses and pillows and blankets.

Ruby can't sleep, and wakes up uncomfortably to walk the house. In a mock-horror style, Ruby wanders into the study, and finds a trophy room that she hadn't seen before. In it are countless weapons, and Ruby is enthralled until she's discovered. It's Jaune's father, who's been polite but not warm to her so far. The weapon collection is his hobby so to speak, and Ruby thinks she's making progress in connecting until she steps foot-in-mouth and uncovers the past behind them when asking if she could try them. Most of them are the weapons of fallen friends and family- an Arc Mausoleum of sorts- but Jaune's Father shows her a separate room with more.

This room has weapons too- broken or damaged. This room is the weapons J.F. has taken from those who hurt his family or broke their hearts- including the weapons of a number of Lust's ex-husbands (and active hunters). J.F. and Ruby have a frank exchange bordering on threatening. J.F. can tell Ruby wants something more with Jaune. But Jaune's Top Ten means that Jaune will put his family first before anyone else, even Ruby- and if anyone above her on the Top Ten says 'no' he will break up with her, even if it breaks his heart. And if Jaune's heart is broken by a girl who wasn't good enough for the family… J.F. shows an empty plague, just right for Crescent Rose.

The terms and conditions are set. Ruby has the week of vacation to try and win over the family, particularly the sisters, to get their approval for her relationship with Jaune. Ruby returns to her bed and resolves to do her best… if she can get to sleep in the over-stuffed and empty bed. When Jaune greets her in the morning, it's too a sleep-deprived but optimistic Ruby ready to spend time with his family.

This is the main plot, with Ruby spending time with the sisters and trying to appeal to them. Some are harder than others, but for the most part Ruby makes success. The primary pacing is that each day begins with a morning breakfast and plans, the day's events, and the evening dinner which shows progress (or lack thereof). In general order…

Pride's dynamic is whether Ruby is 'worthy' to be an Arc- but also why Ruby likes/liked Jaune when he wasn't strong. Ruby proves her strength in a training match, and tells how she first started falling for Jaune (or at least respecting him deeply) when he was brave enough to wear the dress at the ball. It was the start of what would turn into her attraction. Ruby justifies letting Jaune stay in Beacon because of his desire to live up to the family, and how it related to her own pride in her mother Summer Rose. Pride is satisfied, and gives Ruby a pass- though a lingering question is who would be giving up their name and family pride if they got married.

Sloth and Gluttony, twins with elements of Nora and Blake, are easy enough to win over. Ruby stirs Sloth's interest with fairy tales and tales of Jaune and her at Beacon, and by sharing a couch-nap with Jaune as their shoulder pillow. A shared joy of cookies and family meals wins Gluttony. These two are 'won' with promises in which the girls give their approval via their word, which are a running theme of the Arcs. Sloth's promise requires Ruby to not leave Jaune behind, but to slow down and enjoy life with him rather than just racing to adventure. Gluttony's promise entails sharing: that Ruby share her delicious cookies, and Jaune, with the rest of the family. (For reference- Pride's promise was that Ruby and Jaune both hold their head high in their relationship, never ashamed.)

Lust and Avarice are a two-fer tied-into each other over two days. Though they don't get along, they both are protective for Jaune when it comes to romance. Lust is to Jaune what Yang is to Ruby- affectionate and over-protective- while Avarice is acerbic like Weiss, and taking worldy concerns into account. Both think that Jaune is just being taken advantage by Ruby, that's she's the first to show interest and hook him. Avarice suspects Ruby is interested in the Arc name as a source of leverage/gain- especially when Ruby's interest in the weapon collection is revealed. Lust is afraid that Ruby will do unto Jaune what her ex-husbands did unto her- boast about bedding an Arc, and then leave.

Avarice is the easier to defuse- Ruby's ignorance of the Arc name and legacy, and a call-in to Weiss over-night offers a SDC job-opportunity for the struggling Avarice. Avarice is thematically about 'responsibility' and 'mutual benefit'- by showing that she wouldn't be simply leaching off him, but contributing on her own and even bringing benefit to the Arcs, Ruby wins approval. Ruby's a bit uncomfortable at how unromantic it is, but in a moment of bonding and Weiss-echoeing, Avarice shares her own past and marriage, and how despite how mercantile it is it's also genuine. Avarice's marriage, rather than a dashing romance of adventure, was with someone who showed how much he cared for her by helping her support what she cared about most. Avarice touches on the Top Ten list, and how being number nine on the list (ten if you count the father) doesn't mean Jaune doesn't care.

Lust is a bit trickier over the first few days, and the most hostile of the 'older' sisters. At times it's played for comedy- on the first night, threats of castration are made if Ruby touches sneaks into Jaune's room and tries anything that might 'corrupt' the younger sisters. Ruby gets a call to Yang bringing up the rom-com past with Jaune, with Ruby expressing how she didn't think you can do that to women and horrified that Yang ever threatened it to Jaune. Lust plays intrusive chaperone, and interferes with Ruby's efforts to be close and alone with Jaune- despite her own referred to wild-girl party past.

On the darker side, Lust has as much seriousness beneath the façade as Yang. Maybe more- touching on the difficulty of hunter marriages and why the relationships are unstable. The death of one pair, the distance, and the prime opportunity for cheating when separated by long missions. Or just the superficial- grievous injuries and maiming, and the relationships that can be broken by them. It's not a game and not something to just be teenage hormones- and recognizing it is how Ruby wins approval, through her own past with Summer and how her opinion and attraction of Jaune has endured all the non-sexy things, like the first encounter with Vomit Boy. Ruby's maturity- and the revelation that Jaune and Ruby are both still virgins- is what wins Lust over. Lust goes from 'Ruby's a hussy' to 'chaste romance is so sweet,' and the older sisters are at last won over.

This is more or less the first half- the first three days, and five of the seven good. But the last two are the stickers, and transition the romantic comedy to the darker phase. Through her progress, Ruby's been doing well, but had her time with Jaune stolen. She's also been pranked or suffered 'accidents' along the lines of her early bed experience, so she's getting a bit stressed and tense even as she's making progress. Brief moments with Jaune encourage her for the last two, but hardest, sisters: the little sisters Wrath and Envy, who seem particularly set on disliking Ruby. Both put Jaune as a pedestal before he left, and both were the most hurt by his departure and don't want to 'lose' him again.

Wrath's is a quiet teen with strong opinions on what's wrong and right, and there's a definite cloud between her and Jaune over Jaune's deception into Beacon. Since Ruby knew it, and didn't expose Jaune and send him home, Wrath doesn't like it- especially on top of Ruby's other well-intentioned rule breaking. Wrath is a lawful-good sort of girl, with an emphasis on 'lawful'. Even some of the elements Ruby's done to win the sisters over to date- the call to Weiss for Avarice, the bribes of cookies, the might-makes-respect winning of Pride- tick Wrath the wrong way, amounting to corruption and deceit. Wrath knows Ruby is trying to win her over, and rebels against it.

Envy, on the other hand… well, it's in the name. Envy is just shy of a bro-con, and was one when she was younger before Jaune left, and intends to make up for lost time now. Guilt-tripping Jaune over how he ran away, and so on, she shares with his sisters but openly excludes Ruby, and refuses to talk to her. Jaune is apologetic, but goes along with it while Ruby is busy with the other sisters. When Ruby runs into the wall with Wrath and tries to make progress with Envy as well, she's shot down despite her outreach. Envy's a bit of a brat, and declares that she's Jaune's Number 1 girl, more loved than even Mom- and she makes clear she has no intention of letting Ruby have Jaune.

It's a frustrating day of failure, and time's running out. Ruby is stressed, and can't find time with Jaune because he's talking with his parents, holding the box he'd hidden from her earlier. Ruby overhears Jaune's mother talking about her to Jaune in skeptical terms, and makes an indirect reference to the Father's conditions of getting accepted by the family if Jaune or Ruby want her approval. Ruby is faced with the prospect of her relationship with Jaune being vetoed, with an upcoming storm system promising the perfect atmosphere to end the trip.

A breakthrough occurs with Wrath by means of a precious hour or three with Jaune. Jaune explains how both sisters put him on a pedestal before he left- and while Envy is just glad to have him back, Wrath felt betrayed because he'd failed a promise to watch her do something- a play or some such like Romeo and Juliette- when he ran away to Beacon. It's the one promise to her he's failed, and he regrets it. Ruby's able to help Jaune and Wrath reconcile when she (with the rest of the sisters) are able to recreate the conditions so that the promise can be fulfilled. With Ruby playing a key role- the Robeo to Wrath's Juliette- Ruby breaks through. With a touching big-girl/little-girl mentorship on integrity, and how even liars can keep their promises, Wrath forgives Jaune and gives her approval. Wrath also admits to having sabotaged Ruby's bed earlier, trying to sabotage her chances.

This sets Envy off- the two girls had promised to band together to reject Ruby- and Wrath's forgiveness is as much a betrayal to Envy as Jaune's abandonment. Shouting her intention to never let Ruby surpass her, Envy runs off into the dangerous woods, and the family has to muster to search for her. Ruby, despite terrible sleep from Wrath's bed sabotage, musters herself to help in the search.

Ruby finds Envy in a stream that serves as Envy's secret hiding place, and faces a dilemma when Grimm are nearby. Tired and stressed as she is, Ruby can't stop the thought that if Envy just so happened to suffer an accident- a terrible one that just so happened to clear the last veto keeping Ruby from Jaune, who'd no doubt need comfort in his grief…

Ruby pauses far longer than she should, tired and stressed, but does the right thing and carries Envy back. Despite the rescue, Envy states that she's still not changing her mind and approving. Ruby knows, unhappy as it is, and the two return in silence. Jaune rushes to Ruby and Envy, and as he worries over her Ruby recognizes and accepts that Envy really is Jaune's favorite sister. Even Jaune embracing and thanking her profusely doesn't cheer her, nor does the gratitude of the rest of the family, and Ruby retires to a poor night's sleep.

Saturday, the second to last day, is long and hard because while Ruby wakes up knowing it's hopeless, Jaune is determined to use the day to bring Ruby and Envy together. Using Ruby's rescue as the leverage to get her included, Ruby goes along with the sibling make-up-time day feeling like a third wheel. Envy's still bratty, even if less so, but there's a passive-aggressive tension between her and Ruby as the pre-teen competes for Jaune's attention. The day's a mess, the incoming storm closing things left and right, and Envy comes off the worse for it- enough so that Jaune calls her out for her conduct towards Ruby and shames her. With the stormclouds pending, Jaune gets called away to help the town prepare to weather the storm, and Ruby and Envy finally have their long-pending fight.

Ruby, stressed all week long, finally snaps and calls Envy a selfish brat even as she effectively concedes defeat. Ruby affirms her love for Jaune- but also recognizes that Jaune dotes on Envy like no one else, not even her. Venting/ranting about how the marriage is ruined before it could start, Ruby spells out what Envy's obstinance is going to do- not just to Ruby, or Crescent Rose, but also to Jaune. Jaune might love Envy as a sister, but he only loves her as a sister- and he loves Ruby as more than that. Even if he'll put family first, no matter how much it hurts him. His heart might break if the family vetoes the relationship… but Ruby will make damn well sure Jaune knows who's to blame for that veto. See who's the favorite sister after that, why don't you. To pound it in, Ruby lists the contrasts between them- including maturity and bravery and helping others rather than being selfish and wanting Jaune solely for one's self. They could have been sisters if she and Jaune married- and if Lancaster is sunk, so will the brother-sister bond between Jaune and Envy. It's cruel, spiteful, and deliberately hurtful- and Ruby regrets it somewhat as she walks away, leaving Envy behind. Despite her words, she doesn't really intend to tell Jaune who in the family wouldn't approve of her- even as she begins to wonder how she can/should break it to him when she breaks up with him.

Imminent heartbreak is delayed when the storm cell moves in. Jaune, Ruby, and the older Arcs are all involved in helping storm relief while the younger ones are kept safe. But Envy, needled by Ruby's words of bravery and selfishness, sneaks out to try and help on her own, putting her at risk. Long events short, Jaune and Envy are both in danger of a flooding creek, with Ruby only able to save one of them with a damaged crescent rose. Jaune begs Ruby to save Envy- and Envy begs Ruby to save Jaune- and to Envy's horror Ruby saves Envy just before Jaune is washed away down a flooded stream. Ruby chases him with her semblance, damaging Crescent Rose in her efforts to save him, but all she can get is final words when she has a weak and fading grip on him. Declarations of love, regret of missed opportunities, and a promise never to hesitate again before Jaune slips away. Jaune disappears, and can't be found because it's so dark outside. It's a dark ending to the final evening at the Arcs, and Ruby falls to sleep to Jaune's final words.

It's Sunday morning, the final day, and Ruby awakes to an almost empty house. The only one is Envy, who explains that everyone else is looking for Jaune's body. Envy breaks down, while Ruby still can't quite believe it, and despite her animosity Ruby comforts her while Envy unloads. Envy's a brat, but not a malicious one- she was just afraid of losing her brother once more, and her spot as favorite sister. There's a black comedy here- Envy is/was too young to understand marriage, and thought 'sister-in-law' meant Ruby was being adopted. It's here that in the reach-back, all of Envy's objections/hostilities are in terms of Ruby 'becoming part of the family' rather than referring to marriage, and Envy's jealousy was in terms of 'favorite sister,' not 'Jaune has a girlfriend.' She was still a brat, and still jealous… and it got Jaune- she regrets that Ruby saved a selfish girl, instead of letting Jaune be with a good woman.

Ruby interrupts her, saying how they aren't so different. She was envious of how much Jaune was doting on his family, and Envy, and not her. And she wasn't as mature as she'd have liked to be during their confrontation. And she definitely wasn't always a good woman at heart- or at least no more than Envy is purely selfish. Ruby points out that Envy put Jaune above herself- and that it was Ruby who made the choice, and a selfish one at that.

Envy asks why, how, considering that Ruby chose Envy over being with Jaune, and Ruby makes a difficult argument about the selfishness of love. She loved Jaune, so she did what Jaune wanted- to save Envy- because of Jaune. It's the paradoxical selflessness of selfishness of love. Putting together elements from all the other sisters she's come to terms with, Ruby makes the case of why she loved Jaune- of his family pride (pride), of his way of standing up for others and keeping his word (wrath)- and why she was serious about commitment- of spending the time living a genuine life with him (sloth and gluttony) and helping his family in turn (avarice) and commitment (lust). But most of all, she wanted for herself and her future family what Envy wanted to keep for her own- and both girls reconcile and regret that they hadn't shared. Even if it's too late, Envy gives her belated blessing for Ruby, claiming greed in wanting a sister like her.

It's about here that the drama makes way for Jaune making his presence known, by saying it could still happen. He survived- and Ruby and Envy race to him, berating and hitting him for making them think otherwise and not coming back sooner, even if it meant interrupting their moment. Jaune apologizes because he had good reasons- and not just because he knew they'd get along if he left them alone. He was washed very far away, and had lost something important that he had to look for. Ruby and Envy are confused- thinking of Crocea Mors- but Jaune kneels.

Referencing his promise to never hesitate and miss an opportunity again, Jaune pulls out the box Ruby had seen twice before. Behind him all the other sisters are watching with smiles, and even Father and Mother are watching with approval as he opens the box.

Flash forward to the epilogue as Ruby and Jaune are on an automated airship back towards Beacon.

Ruby and Jaune are in good cheer- well, Ruby is in very good cheer while Jaune is suffering airsickness- as Ruby recounts what happened, still giddy in disbelief. Jaune actually posed the question to Envy in terms of 'Envy, would you give me away to marry Ruby Rose', to which Envy gave a 'yes' as happy as if she'd been the one proposed. Only then did Jaune ask Ruby, as all the family watched. Ruby's laughing at it- and asks what Jaune would have done if Envy had said 'no.'

Jaune laughs, and undercuts most of the tension of the plot, by saying he'd have asked Ruby to marry him regardless. Yes, he wanted to talk to his parents before proposing, but he'd been intending to for some time- even had Ren help pick out the ring, which is why he searched so long for it. Even if Weiss or Avarice could afford a dozen of them. Going along with the 'veto' charade- mostly by pretending he wasn't aware of it- was the 'price' he paid for running away to Beacon years ago.

Ruby is taken aback- what about the Top Ten?- and Jaune laughs that she worried that much about it. Yeah, Jaune will put family first- but family doesn't get to pick family. Or rather, there's only one person you can choose to be family, and for Jaune that's Ruby. Once they were family then naturally Ruby would shoot to the top of the Top Ten. Envy can keep her spot as Number 1 sister, even if she's a really a number 2. Jaune teases Ruby for believing in the veto that his family invented to test and scare her- if Jaune couldn't marry who he wanted, how did Ruby think Lust got married all those times? Ruby laughs it off, and makes a reference to the plaque with Crescent Rose's name on it.

Even so, Ruby succeeded, just like Jaune knew she would, and the two turn their minds for the wedding- which they intend to aim for right at graduation. Jaune family and sisters seem dead set on planning it- with Envy the most enthusiastic flower girl- but Ruby counters that they'll have stiff competition from Weiss and RWBY/JNPR. There's a bit of reflection on envy- not just the character, but how jealousy and selfishness and how it factored in the story- but Jaune and Ruby conclude that the real theme of marriage was sharing family, not losing it. Envy was ultimately willing to lose a brother- but Ruby vows that Envy is really getting two sisters, herself and Yang. With some light-hearted thoughts on how Yang will mix-in, Ruby and Jaune hold hands and thumb each others rings.

Suddenly, disaster! The bullhead's in flames! Or at least there are flames, and it's losing altitude as warning sirens go off. Ruby and Jaune prepare their landing strategies, even as they half-heartedly moan about missing a few more days of Beacon until they're rescued. Confident enough in survival, Ruby starts to muse about how it'll be reported now that they're engaged- will this be how Team RWBY learns he popped the question?- and play-acts that they'll be lost forever.

Emboldened by the heat even as they prepare to jump, Ruby kisses Jaune and suggests to Jaune that if they're going to be missing as married, they might as well live like they're married once they land, openly insinuating about sex after they land. Jaune's taken aback- why not wait for the wedding in a few months since they're this close? Ruby playfully considers it- quaint and charming in its own way, true- but also brings up his promise about missing opportunities. Why not take advantage of the next few days as an early honeymoon, since his family all but gave him away at the altar already?

With another kiss, Ruby invites Jaune to follow her and see how it plays out before jumping from the Bullhead. Jaune jumps with exceptional haste.

End.

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Coeur's Impression:

Here's an example of a story that is structured and planned well, has good ideas, a solid theme - and a nice moral to the ending...

That I would stop reading very quickly.

The story is perfectly laid out, everything is explored, Ruby grows as a person - other people grow too, and yet still I would put this down, with a foul taste in my mouth - because what i came away from this thinking is one simple thing.

Jaune Arc doesn't love Ruby Rose.

And that is something any fic with a romantic plot or subplot needs, love - emotional dependency, even in the most base and cruel of romantic fics, such as my Neo Stockholme one, you could argue it wasn't love, but they relied on one another nonetheless.

I didn't get that vibe here, and it made reading this awkward, and hell - it even left me worrying for CF a little; do you need someone to talk to? I'm here if you do... in the same way that some "Power Fantasy" fics smack of authors who have no idea what romance or flirting actually is - this felt like CF isn't fully sure on what a loving relationship between equals really is.

And I don't mean that as an attack, let's go into some details.

"While Jaune misses/ignores Ruby's subtle to have sex, to take their relationship to the next level" - Now I know CF is awkward on intimacy with Ruby in fics due to her age, but to some degree this already set alarm bells going in my mind. Not that Ruby hasn't been shagged, that doesn't matter - but that she feels the need to try and secure things before she goes to visit his family. Sometimes sex is used as a desperation thing, or even a bribe by women. Don't leave me, I'll do anything. But it was only enough to concern me, until the next bit.

"they'll be eager to meet his number nine girl" - Wow... that is not only cruel, but dare I say also an attack on Ruby. Let's be frank here - I get CF's angle, the goal to paint the Arc family as loving, and Jaune as someone who is deeply loyal to them, etc... I get that. but even if it was true - and let's be honest, I have friends I would abandon to die if others were in trouble, we all play favourites.

But you wouldn't tell them! Jaune's saying it out loud to Ruby is something he full well KNOWS will hurt her, but it also acts as a reminder of her place. It's like each time he says it, he is reminding her. "Know your place Ruby." I hear each and every time, and it stings. I love my family, really I do - and they don't like the woman I love, never have done. And I told them exactly where they could stuff it, because I'm sorry - romantic love does trump familial in most cases. It's evolution, genetics and also emotions...

To call your fiance your number nine girl... it feels like mind games designed to keep her down, something commonly used by controlling partners in abusive relationships. And it only serves to reinforce my earlier concern about Ruby trying to push for intimacy ahead of meeting his family.

"Ruby's goal is to make a good impression, in hopes that the family's support will help seal the deal with her own relationship with Jaune." - Why should Ruby have to hope this? Are they not partners of an equal level in this relationship? Sure you can construe some of it to Ruby's nerves - that she perceives this when it isn't true - but as an emotional anchor, Jaune should be doing what he can to tell her such isn't necessary. And the fact that noy only does he NOT - but he makes it worse by ranking her... that's not right.

"J.F. and Ruby have a frank exchange bordering on threatening. J.F. can tell Ruby wants something more with Jaune. But Jaune's Top Ten means that Jaune will put his family first before anyone else, even Ruby- and if anyone above her on the Top Ten says 'no' he will break up with her, even if it breaks his heart. And if Jaune's heart is broken by a girl who wasn't good enough for the family… J.F. shows an empty plague, just right for Crescent Rose."

This is more cruelty, an attack on Ruby by Jaune's father that not only drives home that Ruby is considered somehow LESS than his sisters - not equal love, LESS. But also then finishes by directly threatening her, a girl much younger and weaker than he is. Jaune can be forgiven for not flying into a f*** RAGE - like I would if my love was threatened by my family like that, but he can't be forgiven for not being there to support Ruby. Similarly, while Jaune has a technical excuse for not being there for her when he is dragged off by envy - it is his job as the host to guide her, and yet again he shows that he's willing to leave Ruby alone in territory he KNOWS she is uncomfortable in, with a family he has shown he KNOWS is cold to her - just to play with his sister. Good boyfriend Jaune, just throw her to the wolves when she needs you - very loving.

The early arc of the sisters seems okay, though again the suggestion that not only does Ruby NEED to do this, but that Jaune - the one who wants her to spend the rest of her life with him, does nothing to help. But then we reach the end of the older sisters.

"Through her progress, Ruby's been doing well, but had her time with Jaune stolen. She's also been pranked or suffered 'accidents' along the lines of her early bed experience" - So again, Ruby is facing abuse from the family, physical as well as mental. Jaune does nothing to step in or help apparently, and even if CF were to write little "telling off moments" it wouldn't make a difference unless Jaune proves his intent, by stepping in and STOPPING it - which won't happen, as CF wants to keep it for the plot. So again, another case of Jaune not showing the same concern for Ruby, that she does for him.

Jaune is apologetic, but goes along with it while Ruby is busy with the other sisters. - Why Jaune... that's just disgusting, and if I wouldn't have already stopped earlier - this would be the end for me.

Envy's a bit of a brat, and declares that she's Jaune's Number 1 girl, more loved than even Mom- and she makes clear she has no intention of letting Ruby have Jaune. - This... the whole dynamic of envy... it's fine in how she is portrayed, but the issue is that jaune never does anything to stop or solve it, when it is HIS and only his responsibility. Ruby shouldn't be in a situation where she feels she has to do this, and the whole "H***, Jaune is getting a ring in the background" thing just doesn't do enough for me.

"Jaune rushes to Ruby and Envy, and as he worries over her Ruby recognizes and accepts that Envy really is Jaune's favorite sister" - I can forgive this as Jaune recognising that Ruby can look after herself, and so doesn't need the same level as concern as his young sister, so that's fine.

And the ending...

"Going along with the 'veto' charade- mostly by pretending he wasn't aware of it- was the 'price' he paid for running away to Beacon years ago."

Could be seen as cute - but to me, I wanted to kick Jaune in the head. if I were Ruby, that would be the point I throw the ring to the floor and tell him it's over. Because he put me through such pain, such stress and tension... fear, heartbreak.

For a charade. He knew the entire time, all the little "maybe he could be forgiven" moments are gone - because now we have definitive proof that he f*** KNEW.

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C.F.'s Reflection:

Ouch.

I was intending from the start for the Arcs to be flawed and a bit hard on Ruby. I even intended for Jaune to not be above reproach. But I never intended for his feelings or sentiment to be called into question. There's always going to be times when you misjudge and mis-aim, and going by Coeur's extremely passionate reaction, this was one of mine. Oops.

Sorta. There are points that I can freely agree with Coeur, but there are points I disagree.

In terms of agreement- yes, the family is a bit abusive. I'd go with 'hazing' myself. The whole Ruby in the weapon room was intended as a sort of reverse shotgun-daddy scene. And Jaune's definitely a bit separated from Ruby- the intent was that the sense of isolation would be a bit of Jaune and a bit of Ruby- Ruby not wanting to raise problems, and Jaune standing back to let his family judge Ruby, confident that Ruby would impress them all. I can see how it comes off the worse for it- and I do agree with Coeur that Jaune should have been supportive. Jaune's feelings shouldn't be in question, but in retrospect they clearly could be. Totally own that one- especially since the 'he knew' was an extremely poor addition that I regretted as soon as I posted. That was the biggest own-goal I fouled up on. I just thought 'Jaune not knowing' would be worse, when it, well... let's just say, I don't approve of hazing in general, let alone subjecting your significant other to it.

Something I disagree with Coeur about, however, is the balance between family and love- the whole 'girl number nine' metaphor. Coeur's of a very strong opinion that love comes first. I'm of the opposite. When people try to make an either-or between themselves and my family, they lose. It doesn't mean I don't care about other people- but rather that, until they become family (ie, marry in), family still comes first. Once they are family as well, then sure- they can go to the top of the list. But the fact that they won't until they're family is the proof that they will be first to me when they are family- it's the proof of that conviction. And yes, I consider myself quite capable of having a sincere and healthy emotional relationship, thank you very much.

The key here- and a theme/idea that I'll admit wasn't articulated well because the acceptance/winning approval plot would seem contrary- is that family doesn't choose family. Or rather, that there's one sort of family you choose- your spouse- and everyone else is someone you either have to accept or deal. The idea that the List meant that anyone higher could veto Ruby was just an assumption fed by insecurity. Family doesn't get to veto family, or (in my preferred cultures) +who comes into it.

Just because family is important doesn't they dictate who becomes a part of it. A child doesn't have a choice over if they get a new sibling. A sibling doesn't get a veto over a sister-in-law. Parents don't pick-and-choose children, let alone grandchildren. Family can have influence, but it doesn't control someone's choice- and there should never have been an objective reason to think Jaune wouldn't choose Ruby just because his family doesn't unanimously agree. Ruby might think so, but Ruby's the weak link there.

The crux of the story's drama is Ruby's insecurity. It comes with different sorts of expectations, and Ruby's assumptions getting the best of her. If Ruby hadn't worried, she would have soon learned there was nothing to worry about. The only way for her to 'lose' would have been to give up.

Take the start. Ruby wanting sex to 'cinch' the relationship is based on a common viewpoint of relationships- that sex is an indication of involvement and commitment. Coeur in particular has expressed a belief that a normal/healthy relationship will have sex, and that's the sort of viewpoint I went with with Ruby. Ruby and Jaune are in a serious relationship that isn't serious- ergo it isn't normal, and possibly not as involved or committed as Ruby would like. Ruby's mind is turning towards the future, and wants to resolve whether Jaune will be a part of it or not. They aren't having sex, so Jaune's commitment is questionable, and so the approval/blessing of the family seems to be path to secure their future together.

That's a reasonable, rational perspective, and one that gives Ruby some cause to worry- and thus, an pre-inclination to believe the family's bluff and pressure on her. To start projecting her own fears, whether or not Jaune has actually said anything to that point, and believe them at face value.

Now here's a perspective closer to how I was brought up.

Abstinence until marriage is the greatest sign of commitment. Sleeping around is treating sex lightly, but waiting for marriage is showing that you consider someone that important, and that exclusive. Not only that you consider them worth waiting for, but that you respect them. By extension, showing respect is not just to them, but to their families- to show respect, convince them that you care for the person, and that you're worthy of them so that you can get their blessing. Going through those steps- whether they ultimately approve or not- demonstrates to the partner you not only respect them, but their families, and that's how committed you are. That's when you tie the knot and cinche things.

Does Jaune ever explain that to Ruby? No, not really. Does Ruby ever ask? Also not really. She keeps her concerns to herself, rather than raise them. Which is why Ruby is concerned, and Jaune isn't worried, because they're approaching the same things from different perspectives.

It's a different approach to a committed relationship- and not an abusive one either.

So I strongly disagree with Coeur that Jaune didn't love Ruby (and not just authorial intent), or that he was being abusive (even on the 'family first' theme), or that he was being manipulative (and certainly nowhere near Manipulator Ren). But I'll freely agree and admit that the relationship should have been better, because the fact that Coeur could plausibly have those concerns is a concern in and of itself. Jaune could have been more supportive over the week (I threw in some points, but apparently didn't emphasize them enough), and should have reacted poorly against the sister's abuse earlier (rather than towards the end with Envy). And Ruby should have had a better, clearer reason for not being open with Jaune about her struggles. Insecurity is one thing, but a better motive for silence would have helped.

Fortunately, Coeur and I spent some good-spirited exchanges trying to think of how that could have worked. As you can tell, this isn't just one of C.F.'s big fills- there were big thoughts between us.

You can look forward to this as part of Re-do week- it's my intent to use this as the example of how to improve a flawed story and outline. Coeur won't like that the List will still be there, but we'll see how different version 2.0 is.

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