Before the week is out we head to Vacaville California to the California Medical Facility, where it all started. I can't believe Ford was brave enough to come here and interview Kemper all alone. But I'm glad he did, otherwise we would never have met, I wouldn't still be with the FBI, and I wouldn't be working with this amazing team and coworkers, whom I'm lucky enough to call my friends. I didn't think that Gunn would actually get us Manson, nor did I think he would do it so quickly, but once he got the ball rolling it picked up speed fast, as has everything involving the BSU, both good and bad. After we pull through the double gates, we find a parking place, Tench looks over to Ford, who grabs something out of the glovebox, "you hoping for an autograph?"

"It's research," Ford shakes his head.

"Try not to moisten yourself before you get inside."

Ford sighs, before looking back to me, "any fun facts about California Medical?"

I chuckle, "this was your first place, I'm surprised you don't know everything there is to know about it."

"Nah," he shakes his head, "I leave all that to you. So enlighten me."

I shrug, "alright, it opened in 1955, so compared to most of the other prisons we're been to it's one of the newest."

"But it's still older than you." Tench looks back to me as he chuckles.

"Barely." I shake my head.

"A year still counts."

"I think we are counting months, not years. Thank you."

"Would you happen to know the month that it opened?"

I shake my head and look over to Tench, "no."

"Great, so we are gonna go with before, April of 1955." Tench chuckles.

"Anyway." I shake my head, "it's capacity is 2,361. It's classified as an Operational, minimum to medium security prison."

"And they put someone like Manson here?" Tench looks up to the building.

"Manson and Kemper."

"Kemper isn't one we'd need to worry about." Ford shakes his head, "Ed knows what he did, but he isn't interested in getting out. He is… contempt with his life inside."

"No sense in keeping the man waiting." I shake my head and walk around Ford, heading inside.

We head inside and Ford tries to look as cool as possible, with his sunglasses on, taking them off as we approach the check in counter, handing over our guns and badges. Before we wait for the guard. Before too long we hear the door buzz and the lock click. One of the guards comes through and looks between the three of us, "It's gonna be a bit of a wait. He's refusing to come out of his cell."

"I'm stunned." Tench chuckles.

I look to the guard, "any chance we could talk to Kemper?"

"I can check." the guard nods.

"Thank you."

"No," Tench shakes his head, "not Kemper. We came to see Manson."

"We'll wait him out." Ford shrugs.

I look to Ford, "are you sure you're okay with it?"

"I'll be fine."

"You could ask Kemper about returning to the scene of the crime, for BTK." I turn to Tench. "We know he did that. I mean, he told you he did. We just need to know why." The door buzzes and our side opens, the three of us walking through and following a guard, "Plus, it'll drive Manson crazy to know we are talking to Kemper, instead of waiting on him."

"These guys are all jealous of each other."

One of the guards takes us to Kemper, who is in the chapel area, recording something, "For the use of reason is to justify the obscure desires that move our conduct, impulses, passions, prejudice, and follies." Kemper stops once he hears the door buzz, turning to us, "Gentlemen." he pauses for a moment upon seeing me, "and lady." he smiles, "what a surprise. Bill."

"Ed." Tench nods, shaking Kemper's hand.

"Holden."

"Good to see you, Ed." Ford also shakes Kemper's hand, "uh… this is…"

Kemper shakes his head, "I know who this is." Kemper smiles down to me, since I am quite literally no taller than his shoulders. At least, Ford and Tench come up to about his chin. Kemper takes my hand and lifts it to his lips, "Ms. Nancy, it is a pleasure to meet you." he kisses the back of my hand.

I smile, "it is a pleasure to meet you too, Ed."

Kemper smiles and gently releases my hand, "I never thought I'd meet the woman Holden wouldn't shut up about."

"Is that so." I smirk over to Ford.

"Yes." Kemper nods, "I assume the two of you are seeing each other."

Ford nods, awkwardly, "yes, we are." I have to remind myself Kemper considers us all to be friends, or at least Tench and Ford, so this isn't really an odd question to ask, nor is it odd for him to be acting the way he is.

Kemper gestures to the pues in the room, "have a seat." We all sit, the Tench in one row, Ford and I across from him, and Kemper in his chair in front of us. Kemper looks between Tench and I, "did you know Holden came to see me when I was in the hospital?"

Tench clicks his tongue, "I'm aware."

"It really meant a lot to me." Kemper smiles over to Ford, "that's what friends are for." He looks over to me, still smiling, "you have yourself a good man."

I smile over to Ford, who places a hand on my knee for a moment, "yeah, I do."

"So, Manson, huh?" Kemper sighs, as if he is a bit unimpressed.

"Word travels fast." Tench looks over to Kemper, crossing his legs and putting a hand on the seat back.

"Oh, it's hard to keep something like that quiet. Everybody knows when Charlie takes a shit. And if you haven't heard, he'll tell you all about it. Even if somebody else took the shit for him."

"Right." Ford and I chuckle.

"He's never done that. Doesn't know what it's like."

"Are you saying he isn't worth our attention?" I shrug.

"The 'mayhem' has been copiously mythologized. If you really want to understand how that all went down, you should talk to Tex."

"The all-American pawn?" Tench tilts his head.

"Yeah."

I glance over to Tench, "he's right." I look back to Kemper, "I mean, Tex is the one who really ran the whole thing. We'll keep that in mind." I shake my head, "but we didn't come here to talk about Manson."

"Oh." Kemper nods, as he sees Ford turn the recorder on. "What did you want to talk about?"

"You, Ed. You can ask these two I've been asking if we would come back to see you since I started."

"Really?" Kemper tilts his head a bit, "I would have pegged you as a Bundy girl."

"Aren't all the ladies?"

"Most of them." Kemper nods.

"I wanted to ask you about something you said a while back. About revisiting the sites of your victims."

"Mhmm?"

"Why did you do that?"

"Well, at the murder site, I could relive the experience. Feel the same elation, the incredible release."

"It excited you." I nod.

"Yes, I would also relive the sexual gratification."

"What would make you decide to visit?"

"The feeling of complete dominance, total possession you get from a kill becomes a need. That need builds until it becomes a compulsion to a point that you have to hunt again. Sometimes, I could stave off that need by remembering the moment of the kill. You can really savor that when you're in the exact spot."

"Are there any reasons you wouldn't be able to revisit a site?"

"Too many people around, mostly. I kept things. Little trinkets. Reminders of my experience."

I nod, "the polaroids."

"I could hold them. Possess them. They were souvenirs."

"Was there a specific amount of time, something you could measure, when the 'souvenirs' weren't enough?"

"You three have somebody, someone you can't catch. Is that right?" Kemper looks between the three of us and we just nod, "Who is it? The East Area Rapist? The San Mateo Slasher? I-45 Killer down in Texas?" Kemper shakes his head, "You've found somebody who hasn't made the news yet. Just startin' out."

I take a deep breath, "Would you have any thoughts on someone like that?"

"Of course," Kemper nods, "But I'd have to be acquainted with the pertinent facts."

Tench shakes his head, "We can't discuss ongoing investigations, Ed. With anyone. I'm sure you understand."

"Of course, Bill." Kemper takes a deep breath, "It's a taxing lifestyle. A lot of factors that go into success. As I got better, I was very careful that all conditions were exactly right. This person you're after, he has an overwhelming fantasy life. Fantasies of what he's done, what he wants to do, how he's going to improve. These dreams will consume him. Soon, the real world won't even compare."

"How do we catch a fantasy, Ed?"

"You can't. If he's any good, you'll never see it. He'll live like any other person, have relationships, hold down a job."

"We know killers don't have the tools to manage real life." Ford shakes his head, "They come from marginalized backgrounds, they break under the pressure of what they've done. They make mistakes."

"It seems to me everything you know about serial killers has been gleaned from the ones who've been caught."

The door buzzes and a guard steps in, "He's ready."

"Sorry, Ed." Ford stands, grabbing the recorder as he does, turning it off.

'That's all right. Did you save enough tape for the charlatan?"

"I brought extra."

"You'll need it." Kemper nods, "he's a talker." Kemper clears his throat, "I'm still trying to write my book. I just need access to a typewriter."

I smile up to Kemper, "we'll see what we can do."

"Thank you, Ms. Nancy. And it was a pleasure."

"See you around, Ed."

We go to leave, but Kemper calls out to us as we get to the door, "one more thing." we all turn to Kemper, "Manson is really small." Kemper puts a hand up to the center of his chest, "Like, really small. Try not to stare."

We head down the hall and I turn to Ford, "that was very interesting."

"Was it?" Tench chuckles.

"It was." I nod, "I mean, think about it. Ed's right, we can only study those killers who've been caught and they all share personality traits and have similar backgrounds, but how can we study a threat we can't even see?"