"Don't move, Alex," Carlisle says. I haven't even opened my eyes up. His voice, however, encourages me to move and see where I am. I've clearly been unconscious for a little bit.
"Alex?" Carlisle asks.
I look him straight in the eyes. I'm laying down in an upward position, which I have to say, is pretty comfortable. Or maybe that's just the painkillers talking. For some odd reason, I don't feel like talking.
"Are you alright?" he asks again.
I nod. I'm alive. So I guess I'm ok. What even is the standard for alright in this world?
"Stay relaxed and don't move around. I had to do surgery on you again. Your ribs splintered from repetitive stress on them and they started puncturing your lungs. I injected extra anesthesia to numb the nerves around your ribs," he says.
I nod.
"Do you want to be alone?" he asks.
I shake my head. I don't necessarily want to be alone, but I also just want to be physically comforted. I don't think my ribs will allow me to get a hug any time soon.
Carlisle sits down by my right side. "Alex, I'm concerned about you. You've been very quiet lately," he says.
"Worried," I answer incoherently.
"What about?" he asks.
"I have a hard time with schedule and routine changes. And I feel like I'm neglecting Alaska," I answer.
"Emmett has been taking care of her. He says she's very sweet," he says.
"Alaska loves people. She gets so excited to see those she knows. And she's a snuggler. I miss my baby girl," I say.
"Alice and Jasper went into town to the address on your license. They collected some things for you. I asked them make sure to have your laptop and charger so you can work on your thesis. They found your medication bag and pill container in your closet, and also found your overnight bag and packed you clothes and toiletries that they found. I think it would be best to tell your clients and the university that you had to leave down on a whim for a family emergency and you'll be out for at least a week," he explains.
I nod in acknowledgement.
"Is there anything you can think of you need to do or anything in town you need?" he asks.
"I need to cancel therapy sessions," I answer. "Do you know where my phone is, by chance?" I ask. Its probably dead. I don't even know how long its been.
"I just set it to charge," he says.
"Is this the same day as when we went to the Rez?" I ask.
"Day after," he answers.
"When do you need to go back to the hospital?" I ask.
"Whenever I like. I was actually just there to pick up more supplies," he answers.
"Did you take time off...because of me?" I ask.
"I did. I work too much and they know it. Also, there's no way I could explain your injuries without having my license suspended...so I operated on you here," he explains.
"Thank you," I express sincerely.
"You're welcome," he replies.
"Carlisle," I ask.
He looks at me. "Do you just want some comfort?" he asks.
I nod slowly. Is it that obvious?
Carlisle holds my hand gently and just looks at me. "What did you think of the reservation?" he asks.
"Very strange to say the least. But I guess I have to get used to seeing all sorts of weird things," I answer.
"Billy hit a nerve with you when he saw that your spirit is traumatized," Carlisle says.
"I know I'm hurt. When others mention it, it makes me feel vulnerable and lesser. In the moment it felt like an insult to my character," I answer.
"I understand if you don't want to talk in detail about what happened. People tend to trust my medical expertise, not my psychological," he says.
"To be very honest, you come off as emotionally closed off. I have a hard time reading your internal emotional state. You keep a very neutral, stoic face," I tell him.
"Its a habit," Carlisle replies with a smile.
"Why would you say its a habit?" I ask.
"It helps me stay neutral in situations. If I don't give clues of my emotional state, no one can question it," he answers.
"Do you force yourself to be emotionally detached, or is it a natural thing for you?" I ask.
"Both. I have to stay neutral in many situations," he answers.
"When you feel upset, how do you express it?" I ask.
"I can't say I feel upset much," he answers.
"Well, not necessarily upset. Frustrated, sad, even angry? Everyone feels these emotions from time to time," I ask.
"In all honesty I just push them away," he give in.
"Do you acknowledge and accept the way you feel and why you feel like so?" I ask.
"I do. I find emotions to be distracting a lot. After being alive for so long, I've seen some really horrible things myself. A lot of death. A lot of misery in human life," he answers.
"So its safe to say you've been through trauma as well," I interpret.
"Yes, I guess so," he answers.
"Showing, or even just telling how others how you feel is never a distraction. Your family has high respect for you. Esme loves you to the end of the world and back. If anything, its an honor to be trusted to talk about emotions. It took me years to learn to identify how I felt because emotions were categorized in a polar way when I was growing up- good and bad. I didn't know whether I felt afraid or confused or sad. I just knew I would be shamed to feel a 'bad' emotion. No one here will do that. We all want to help you be your best, happiest self," I say.
"Now that I think about it, you're right. I don't think I know how to identify emotions on the spot. I have to think about it a lot," he says.
"Do you have a piece of paper?" I ask.
Carlisle stands up and goes to his desk. He picks up a piece of printer paper and takes a pen out of his shirt pocket.
"Draw five equal circles for me," I ask. He does as asked.
"On top of each one, label joy, sadness, anger, fear, and disgust," I continue.
"Now, we're going to categorize emotions into these 5 circles. If there's one we don't know where to place, you can write it outside of the circles. Now, what are some emotions you'd put under joy?" I ask.
"Happiness?" he asks.
"Great, write it down. A lot of these will be synonyms," I answer.
"Surprise, excitement, pride, optimistic," he says.
"Perfect. Keep going for every single circle," I answer, smiling. Now, I feel proud of myself. Carlisle may be highly experienced in life, but it takes a skill to be emotionally intelligent.
After a few minutes, he shows me his chart. "I don't know where to put helpless. It feels like I could put it into fear and also into sad," he says.
"Put it in both, then. There's also a difference between feeling something towards other and something towards yourself. I could be feeling fear for others and anger for myself for the same thing," I answer.
"That makes a lot of sense, actually," he says. I actually see him smile for a moment.
"What do you feel in this moment?" I ask. "Look at your chart if you need to," I answer.
"I feel very neutral. Is that a category too?" he answers.
"Neutral is a state of mind rather than an emotion. Maybe you feel content?" I ask.
"That's it," he answers.
"I think content would fall under happy," I say.
"But I don't feel happy. Not especially happy," he explains.
"Tell me what you're thinking about," I ask gently.
"Well, I'm worried about your recovery because you're going to be in a lot of pain for the next few weeks. I'm upset with how the natives treat the coven, and I'm satisfied with the work I've done on you," he answers.
"It sounds like you're feeling mostly afraid and a little angry, and that's alright. I'm in full panic for much of the day because I worry a lot about things that are out of my control. On the other hand, you need to give yourself credit for what you have done," I laugh lightheartedly.
"I guess so," he says. I can still feel like he is trying to push emotions away.
"Carlisle, emotions are often overwhelming and uncomfortable. Don't push them away unless necessary. The best way to process them is by talking and writing them out. Write out everything you're thinking. Vent, to Esme, or me, or anyone you feel you can confide in. I know you listen to others without judgement. Others can do that for you too," I reassure. "Do you ever seek comfort from others?" I ask.
"Yes, my wife," he answers.
"That's great. Physical comfort is amazing, isn't it?" I ask.
"It is. Affection is actually how I've been dealing with my emotions," he answers.
"Do you talk about them too with her?" I ask.
"Not really. Also, just to give you a heads up, everyone in the house can hear our conversation right now. I can hear Alice and Edward talking about it," he answers.
"I see confidentiality is non-existent in this house," I joke seriously.
"But respect is," he says.
"That's great, actually," I reply.
"Enough about me. Tell me about you," he says.
"I have a narcissistic mother and a passive father. They put me in the middle of their arguments and fights since I was six, and made me their messenger, counselor, and personal caretaker. I developed crippling anxiety and depression by high school, and anorexia in my undergrad. I was sexually assaulted twice. Once when I was sixteen, and once again when I was eighteen. Two different men. I got away both times. I got severely re traumatized in eating disorder treatment because they used force feeding and punishment for compliance," I answer, as non-nonchalantly as possible.
"Whoa, slow down," Carlisle says. "That's a lot for someone so young," he adds.
"My parents always said I'm lucky they didn't beat us a lot or left us hungry," I reply sarcastically. Growing in an overly-controlling household, I learned to be thankfully for what I did have. A family, shelter, food, vacations.
"Victims of physical abuse say that its not the beatings that were bad. It were the words," he says.
"I've heard that too. I left to Wyoming for distance, and so I could start a life for myself without my past haunting me," I explain.
"What do you want to do?" he asks.
"I want to buy about ten acres and build a log cabin, a shop which I'll convert into an indoor dog play and training area, and a really big fenced outside area. I just want to continue caring and training dogs," I answer.
"Based on what I've heard about Alaska, I understand why you love dogs," he says.
"Do vampires just generally not care for pets, or is it because of their scent?" I ask.
"For me it's both. Dogs smell like food to us," he answers. "Speaking of dogs, we should talk about what happened yesterday."
"Do the rest know?" I ask.
He nods. "I filled them in," he answers.
"I didn't like the chief at all. I felt like he was trying to make me seem like a fraud of some sort. But I could talk with Matthew when he was human, through his hand! And of course I can communicate with canines. Its what I do for a living," I answer.
"Billy likes you. He invited you back to the reservation whenever you like. As you know, our kind cannot," Carlisle says.
"I don't understand the feud. What would happen if I told them I have no choice but to change to save my life?" I ask.
"So the feud comes from a bad history. Vampires killed off a lot of their tribe hundreds of years ago before Esme and I ever came here. They had folklore of 'cold-ones' who are evil and blood-thirsty," he answers.
"Is the treaty just to maintain order?" I ask.
"I guess so. We have no intention of interrupting their way of life. Yesterday was my first time on their land ever," he answers.
"Did you notice anything different? Smell?" I ask.
"It smells like wet dog," he answers, chuckling.
"Carlisle, what if they try to claim me as their own since I'm a demi-spirit?" I ask.
"They can't claim you. You're autonomous. You do not belong to anyone, Alex. I promise, you're not some property others can claim and take. What do you is always up to you," he answers.
"I feel like it would be a good idea to collaborate with them on what the Volturi are doing. You two are definitely on the same side on the issue. As a demi-spirit, I'm part of the spirit world, but also capable of being turned into a vampire. I doubt they'd be ok with a spirit being turned," I explain.
"That's a hard issue. I would be afraid that they'd threaten to break the treaty if I was to change you because of your spirit," he says.
"Or, the wolves would be willing to help protect me from the Volturi," I propose.
"You're thinking deep here, Alex. Can I call in the family to talk about it?" Carlisle asks.
"Absolutely. The more heads, the better," I answer.
"I can hear Esme coming up," he says. Within a second, Esme gently knocks on the room before coming in.
She smiles when she sees me. "Hi honey."
"Hi, Esme," I answer.
Jasper, Alice, Emmett, Edward, and Rosalie follow in. They look at me all concerned. I smile at them.
"I take it you all know everything I do," I start.
"Pretty much," Edward answers. He's the mind-reader, after all.
"Its a hard thing to predict. I can't imagine them getting involved with the Volturi," Esme says.
"Well, how do you think they'd feel if they knew a spirit with powers was turned into an even more powerful vampire?" I ask.
"There's no doubt they wouldn't agree to it," Carlisle says.
"Do they really even have to know? Its not really any of their business since you aren't one of theirs," Emmett asks.
"Well, now that they know about me, I feel like they are now involved. Unless there's a much larger supernatural world I don't know about," I answer.
"I agree. I don't think going behind their backs does anyone any good," Esme says.
"Why didn't I bring it up yesterday?" I ask rhetorically.
"Too early to have brought up," Carlisle answers.
"Good point. When do you predict I'll be up and running again?" I ask.
"Two weeks at best. You're not leaving this floor for at least four days," he answers lightly.
I look at him with a horrified, sarcastic expression as if to say, "Say jinks right now."
He chuckles. "Sorry, Alex. I forgot to tell you I put six screws in your ribs to keep them together," he says.
"I guess I'll go visit them, see if I can talk with them about a compromise at least," I suggest.
"You may be a good barrier. The treaty has been solid for almost a hundred years," Jasper says.
"If I can help, I will. What I'd ideally like to happen is to come to a consensus about the situation, and make the most logical decision from there," I answer.
"I'm cool with that," Emmet says.
"At this point it sounds that's the only option there is, so I'm on board," Edward says.
I notice that Alice and Rosalie have been silent. "Alice, Rosalie?" I ask.
"I agree with Edward," Rosalie answers.
Alice has been listening, but definitely distracted with visions. "It's going to be messy. But from the short time I've known you, I know that you'll deescalate the tensions before they fly," she says.
I nod. "I will, Alice."
Our conversation ends and Esme offers to help me take a shower. Carlisle unhooks my IV and carries me to the bathroom. I'm not dressed in much to begin with, so Esme lowers me into the tub and starts the water.
"How's your mobility in your arms?" she asks as she pulls out a toothbrush and new tube of toothpaste. Do vampires brush their teeth?
"I can mostly use my forearms," I answer as I reach for the toothbrush from Esme. I brush my teeth while the tub fills up.
"How are you, dear?" she asks.
"I'm doing pretty well, Esme. I'm happy I'm here with you and your family. You are all so kind to me," I answer.
"Sweetheart, I know its rough to not be able to go about your typical routine, especially with so many broken bones," she says, ignoring what I had just said because she knows I'm stressed out.
"It is, but I'll get used to it. Since I can't move much anyhow I'll hopefully stay focused to catch up on my master's work," I answer.
"I heard you're worried about your dog," she says.
"I miss her a lot. She better be behaving well for you all," I answer with a smile.
"She's doing great. We can bring you downstairs so you can spend some time with her. Jasper and Alice got your things, including Alaska's food. Alice said that your room is very tidy, and that you clearly like the color purple," she says.
"Yes, my favorite color is purple," I reply, smiling even more. Esme is helping me wash my hair with shampoo.
"And that you have two pairs of pants," she adds.
I laugh a little too hard and my ribs throb. "My winter things are packed away. The pants I have out are what I have for warm weather," I explain.
"Alice is quite the stylist of the family. She said she felt horrified that you had only two options," Esme describes.
"The same way I go from simplistic decoration, I go for function and versatility when it comes to clothing. Black pants go with everything, and so do denim overalls. If I had more clothes I probably wouldn't wear them as much as I wear what I have. Plus, it keeps my choices simple," I answer.
"I think you look lovely in everything," she says.
"Thank you," I answer, gleaming.
Esme helps me finish up, and rinses me off as the water drains. She uses a towel to dry my hair, then stands me up to finish drying me. My ribs are still bandaged up so Esme avoids it. She helps me put a loose t-shirt on over it. I finally put on fresh underwear and Esme helps me put on a pair of my summer pants.
"Feeling a little more fresh now?" she asks.
I nod. "I was way overdue for a shower. Thank you," I answer.
"You're family now, whether you like it or not," she says.
I smile at her through the mirror.
"I have food waiting for you," she whispers to me. I chuckle.
"You're the mom who wants to feed everyone," I joke.
"I am, you're right. I'm so grateful for what you've done for us," she says.
I stop and look at her. "Esme, I've done absolutely nothing," I say, confused.
"You exist, and you have met us. That's more than enough, sweetheart," she explains.
"No, really. Thank you. I have a family, but not a function-able one. If it weren't for my ribs, I'd give you a hug right now," I persist.
Esme gives me a reassuring pat on my shoulder. "Are you ready to go downstairs and see Alaska?" she asks.
I grin like a child. Esme picks me up in a bridal-hold and speed-walks down the stairs and lays me down on the sectional couch in the living room. She adds two throw pillows to keep me on an incline.
I hear Alaska's playful bark. A few seconds later Emmett zooms in, huffing and puffing. "Man, she's fast. But not as fast as me," he says to me.
"Are you giving her a run for her money with your super speed?" I ask.
"Yea. She's good, but can't catch me," he answers.
"Thanks for playing with her. You're a true bro," I tell him.
"She's a sweet girl. I can't remember having pets before I became a vampire. I will admit, I kinda want to feed on her, but I know she means a lot to you, so I won't," he says.
"Hey, if she's too tempting or too much, please let me know. I have a friend who lives east of town who can take her," I say.
"She's actually a great guest. She's a nice dog! She loves to play, she naps, she goes potty outside. At night she sleeps in the garage. Apparently she likes the cold floor? I made a bed for her and everything," Emmett says.
"Yea, I could spend two-hundred dollars on the nicest bed on the market for her and she still would prefer to sleep on the floor right next to it," I answer.
Esme interrupts with walking to me with a plate with what I think is homemade pizza. "Esme!" I exclaim. "You're the best."
"I thought that award would go to me," Carlisle pipes in from the counter. I didn't even see him in the room.
"That award is not limited to one person," I joke lightheartedly.
He laughs. "You feeling better after your bath?" he asks.
I nod and smile.
Emmett goes outside to the back patio. Because the property is so large the house sits in the middle, so all of the surrounding land is the yard.
"Hey, Alex," I hear from behind me. It's Alice.
"Hey," I reply.
"Can you please explain to me how you have four t-shirts and two pairs of pants?" she asks in a sarcastic serious tone.
I look at Esme who makes eye contact with me, and we both laugh. "That's my summer stuff. My winter things are in my suitcase in my closet," I explain.
"You don't even have enough shirts for every day of the week," she exclaims.
"I usually wear everything twice, with the exception of pants. I'll wear those all week long. There's this thing called showers and deodorant and not getting really dirty," I defend playfully.
"And your black pants have holes in them. And they smell like animals!" she says.
"I'm sorry, that comes with my profession. If you look at my knees. I'm always covered in scratches from cats and dogs. In my four years I've never been badly bitten, but I constantly get scratched so badly through my clothes not only does it form holes, I'm constantly drawing blood," I answer.
"Why not wear more durable material?" Carlisle suggests.
"That's where I wear farmer overalls when I have a lot of jumpy dogs and cats scheduled. But it gets too hot. Anything over seventy degrees is too hot for my Russian soul," I answer.
"Summers aren't that long, thankfully," Alice says.
"I love winter. I can't wait for the next snowstorm that's going to shut everything down," I reply.
"And we get snowed in," Esme says.
"The roads out here aren't county maintained," I explain.
She nods. "Still worth it for the seclusion," she says.
"This why this state is awesome. So much room. I've always thought about what it would be like to live in a town of one," I say.
"Yeah, that's not possible since there are seven of us," Jasper answers.
"Ok, a town of seven," I give in with a laugh.
Emmett walks back in, with Alaska on her leash. He lets her go and Alaska jumps on my lap and licks my face while crying from excitement. "Hi baby girl. Hi sweetheart. I've missed you so much. Have you been a good girl? Have you? Have you been having fun?" I ask her.
"Does she understand you?" Alice asks.
"She doesn't understand the semantics of my questions, but she knows that I'm being playful and upbeat, which encourages her to mimic my energy," I explain. "Since you hunt animals for sustenance, do you connect with your prey even a little bit?" I ask.
"Vampires have a hard time communicating with animals," Carlisle answers.
"Do you have any recollection of animals from your human life?" I ask them all.
"We're lucky to remember our full names. So no," Jasper answers.
"Is the response when you smell animals similar to when you smell humans? Just wanting to feed?" I ask.
"Vegetarianism is learned while human feeding is instinctual. I feel like it would be similar to feeling hungry and smelling either your favorite thing or something less interesting," Carlisle answers.
"Do animals scents differ to you?" I ask.
"No doubt. Antelope are the stinkiest things after wolves," he says.
"Have you ever had dog?" I ask.
"I have," Alice answers. "When I was a newborn I killed just about anything that had blood," she says.
"Oof," I make out. Alice is just a gently soul, I wasn't expecting it. I wonder if she's the way she is because of what her blood thirst made her do.
"Alaska is not in danger here," Jasper comforts. "We hate wolf-stink, and dogs come second after antelope on that list," he adds.
I scratch Alaska's head and she smiles.
"She's really affectionate," Carlisle says.
"She really is. She loves her people very much," I answer. "One of the things I love about dogs so much is that they love their people unconditionally. They love you simply for being around them. Now, add in affection and bonding and feeding them, and that love grows exponentially. One of the difficult things when I train her is that I myself am enough of a reinforcer for her, so correcting her behavior is hard. If she does something like get up from a 'down' and I give her a marker word like 'no, bad' and by simply talking to her that does the opposite of the type of reinforcement I want to achieve," I explain.
"I don't think its easy for vampires to understand human-animal relationships simply because animals are food," he says.
"So I eat meat too. And I work with animals. Do I feel sadness when I eat chicken? No, I don't. Would I feel upset if someone turned Alaska into a kebab? Uh, absolutely! The difference is emotional connection. Like many people, there are animals who are food, and animals who are not. Can I get attached to a cow, a pig, chicken, etc? Yes. But if I don't know the animal on an emotional level prior to eating it, I don't give it any thought," I say.
Carlisle turns to his family. "Why does this not work for us?" he asks.
"I feel like Emmett is getting there," I say.
"I am!" Emmett shouts from outside. He races back inside. "She's so freaking sweet," he says.
"Give yourself time, don't stress. And if Alaska is making any of you uncomfortable please let me know although I'll probably know before you tell me," I answer and smile.
"To be honest, its nice to have this change. Our family hasn't had any changes since 1943 when Jasper and Alice joined our family. Its been almost eighty-years," Carlisle says.
"Oh my goodness that's a long time," I comment. "Do you happen to keep any items from centuries ago?" I ask.
"Here and there, yes," he answers.
"My father's family in Russia have this cabin we call 'the family nest' were they keep pieces of history. Photographs, unburied ashes, things like that. It goes back to about 1914 though which isn't that far back considering how old all of you are, but to us its very treasuring to have pieces of history from that far back. Especially things like photographs," I say.
"Time moves very strangely for us," Esme starts. "Its slow enough to catch up to, but moves fast enough that we don't think about keeping physical memories," she says.
"I've kept some of my clothes from New York from the 1910's," Alice says.
"Did you keep your pacifiers too?" Emmett teases. Alice shoots him a 'c'mon dude, that's not cool' look. I raise my eyebrows at him, but Alice jumps in.
"It's because we think I was fourteen or so when I was changed," she says. That explains her short stature.
"Would you be considered an immortal child?" I ask.
"Technically yes, but at that time fifteen was very much a young adult, so the Volturi didn't terminate me," she answers.
"Immortal children are forbidden?" I ask.
"Yes," Carlisle answers. "Children aren't fully developed yet, and they can't keep secrets about our kind."
"I see. Well, good thing I'm in my twenties," I answer.
"So, funny enough, we all are," Carlisle says.
"No way," I answer, eyes wide from surprise. Carlisle carries himself like a man in his early forties.
"Edward is actually older than Esme," Emmett says.
"Wow, I would have never guessed," I answer.
"Age gets really blurry as decades go by and we don't age," Carlisle explains.
"I'm sure. Its hard to imagine you in your twenties after three centuries," I comment.
"As weird as it sounds, age really is just a number in our world," Emmett says.
"It makes perfect sense. Who gives a shit if you're twenty-three when you've been twenty-three for like one-hundred and eight years?" I joke with a smile.
"Exactly," he says.
"Alex, how's your pain?" Carlisle asks, changing the subject.
"Quite manageable," I answer honestly.
"I still need you to be on bed rest for about four days so your splinters heal. I take it you have to work on your thesis anyhow," he says.
"Yes. I'll need to make a couple video conferences with my mentor just to make sure I'm good to go," I answer. "I can call my friend to come get Alaska since I can't take care of her," I say. I don't want to bother them with her.
"Alex, I've got it. I will take care of her," Emmett says.
"You don't have to do that," I press. I'd love to keep her here but I don't want to burden them with her and me. I feel like the Cullens do so much for me already.
"Alex. Alaska stays here," Esme cements.
"Okay, okay. I don't want to burden you. You've already a human on your hands," I joke.
"Watch us all fall in love with Alaska by the end of the week," Rosalie says from the back.
I turn my head to her direction. "That would be a miracle," I say
"One of the things that first caught my attention about you when you stumbled on the homestead is that you have a real passion for human-animal relations," Carlisle says. "Vampires are a grey-area between human and animal."
"Because of your human appearance and the humanity you have, I could never consider vampires animals. To me, spirits, vampires, witches, anything superhuman is its own category that doesn't even fall onto the animalian family. Its its own category, like a language know one knows where it originated from," I say.
"That's very kind," he says.
"Why?" I ask curiously.
"Because of our feeding habits and the animalistic instinct to kill," he answers.
"That's understandable, but on one hand we all kill for survival. I eat plants, so I kill those. I eat animals, those die for consumption as well," I say.
"Carlisle is talking about newborn vampires going on killing sprees of humans," Alice clarifies.
"What other choice do you have?" I ask.
"None, really. But its human lives we all took," he answers.
"I think that leaves my area about social institutions and treads into philosophy," I say.
"But the question remains. Are we animals or humans for taking human lives?" Carlisle asks.
"Still human, and I'll tell you why. You recognize that its not an ideal situation to kill humans for your own survival, but its what you had to do until you learned to become 'vegetarian,'" I answer.
"So then its remorse?" he asks.
I nod. "I'd say so."