Kunsel settled back, watching as somehow Valentine's spar with Drew turned into a three way match with Zack. How, exactly, that had happened he didn't know. He thought it involved the idea that she'd bring Shears, but honestly he really wasn't sure.

"At least they're having a good time," he muttered.

"There is that," Veld agreed, crossing his arms as he watched.

Kunsel glanced at him, immediately missing his helmet when Veld met his gaze. He hadn't been wearing it since they'd gotten Zack back, and there was an uncomfortable vulnerability in being seen. "So, uh. The board's probably too distracted to care much that Zack's not dead, huh?"

"I don't think that's their primary concern at the moment, no," Veld said.

Kunsel huffed. "Right. Sooo… how's that going on your end? Them being distracted."

Veld was silent so long that Kunsel honestly thought he wasn't going to get an answer. "They're going to need a solution, eventually. Can't string them along on raw fear forever. Fear makes people stupid."

"Yeah, I could see that." Kunsel arched a brow. "So you need a scapegoat. I'm guessing Fuhito wouldn't work, with the whole… idolizing Hojo bit."

Veld shook his head, eyes tracking Vincent. "Someday, you and I are going to sit down and talk sources."

Kunsel laughed, shrugging. "I mean, someone's got to."

"SOLDIER did just fine without their own Turk," Veld said, but his smile wasn't unkind.

"Yeah, and the Turks did fine without their own SOLDIER," Kunsel retorted evenly, arching a brow. He counted it a point in his favor that Veld seemed a little surprised. People probably didn't turn things around on him too much.

Well. He was in with a different crowd now.

"It works out alright, yeah?" Kunsel said softly. "Even if it's a little scary to watch."

"Somehow I can't picture you being afraid of Zack," Veld said.

"Of? Hell no, never," Kunsel said. "Of what's been done to him? Of what he could be up against? Well yeah. I'm not stupid."

"What he could be up against?" Veld repeated, curious.

"Look… I don't think you're going to just turn on us," Kunsel said. "You don't want that fight any more than we do, and it would be a fight. We're not going down easy. But we're more alike than not in this. And if it comes down to your people or mine, I know what you're going to pick."

"You wouldn't respect me for less," Veld said. "Would you?"

"No, I wouldn't," Kunsel agreed. "I'd make the same call. I think that's human nature. But the fact remains that things could still spiral out of control."

"You still don't trust ShinRa," Veld said.

"Do you?" Kunsel turned it back on him. "Because I don't see why we should."

"Of course I don't. I'm their secret keeper; I know better." Veld sighed. "But you'll stay."

Kunsel's lips twisted into a wry smile. "There's something to be said for the comfort of the familiar verses the uncertainty of the unknown. The world isn't exactly SOLDIER friendly."

"No, I suppose it's not," Veld said. "Starting over's not fun. I don't advise it."

Kunsel hummed, wondering at which instance had brought that bit of advice on. Veld would know, more than most. The man was a survivor on every level. "Did you ever think about leaving?"

Another pause, and a glance showed Veld looking at him with an arched brow. When Kunsel mirrored the gesture with a cheeky half smile, he snorted softly. "You expect I'll answer that?"

"I don't know," Kunsel admitted. "I mean, I'm pretty sure you've thought about it now. I meant like, before the shit hit the fan. It hadn't crossed my mind before the mess with the commanders, even with everything we did."

Veld sighed, shaking his head. "I've seen more than you have."

"Yeah, but where's your line?" Kunsel held up a hand. "I don't expect you to answer that. I'm not trying to make this a thing, and I don't think either of us has room to fight for moral high ground. I was just curious."

"Your just curious is going to land you in hot water someday," Veld said.

"But not today?" Kunsel said.

Veld chuckled softly. "No, not today. But it makes me wonder about your job choices. You're not exactly the typical SOLDIER."

"Yeah, well." Kunsel rubbed his hands together, gloves rasping softly. "When they told me I'd never be able to make First, I figured I was going to have to do things different, you know? I'd never be a fast, heavy hitter like Zack, and I don't have the magic going for me that carried Genesis when he was out muscled."

"So you outsmart your opponents," Veld said.

"I've always had a mind for strategy, and I'm fairly forgettable. People don't think about me, don't see me as a threat until it's way too late - especially hanging out with Zack, you know? He's such a big personality I just… fade," Kunsel said. "And I'm fine with that."

"You like that," Veld corrected. "You were never in it for the fame. Being able to get in and out, do you job, and not have to deal with any fuss? That's perfect for you."

Kunsel smirked. "Pegged me fast, didn't you?"

"You're only forgettable to people who prize those heavy hitters," Veld said. "I make it my business to know who else is in the information game."

"And I count, huh?" Kunsel hummed. "I think I'm flattered, Director."

"You're the difference between SOLDIER being a menace, and SOLDIER being a threat," Veld said. "The potential has always been there, of course. But someone has to be there to give that push. And it wasn't Zack who gathered everyone."

Kunsel stared at him in surprise a moment, making a thoughtful sound. "They wouldn't have known without me, that's for sure."

"I don't know that they'd have mobilized without you, either," Veld said. "Or at least someone like you."

"Huh." Kunsel shrugged. "Guess we're not going to know."

"I guess not," Veld said, willing to let it go.

Kunsel, of course, was not so experienced in that. Or as inclined, regardless. "So, we know what happens to SOLDIER with a Turk of their own. What happens to the Turks with a SOLDIER of their own?"

Veld hummed, eyes straying back to where Vincent was working with Zack and Drew; he wasn't making as many hits - no surprise, the man was a ranged expert and this was a melee fight - but he wasn't taking any, either, almost effortlessly evasive. The first time he'd burst into crimson mist when Zack got too close, he'd heard a startled curse from the SOLDIERs, but to their credit they seemed all the more determined to take him down. But he was undeniably holding his own, against two of SOLDIER's best.

Turks' SOLDIER indeed. What did that mean, strategically?

"You sound like you have thoughts," Veld said, half observation and half buying himself time as he mulled it over.

"I've got thoughts on everything, Director." Kunsel shrugged. "Why, you want to hear them?"

"I'd be interested. I've assessed the enhanced forces before, but from an outsider's perspective," he said. "This is different."

"Yeah… at least you've got some ideas about his top-end… not that he maxxed out, I don't think either of them did, and we didn't test Limits either," Kunsel said. "But you've got some idea of what's in his arsenal. And that's without practice."

"How much improvement do you usually see with practice?" He asked.

"I mean, it usually depends a lot on which tier we're talking about," Kunsel said. "But that's just because there's such a difference between enhanced and non. So of course when someone goes from cadet to Third, it's a huge jump, and just continues as they settle into their enhancements. It's still a jump from Third to Second, but not nearly so much. Second to First isn't an obvious change, but that's mostly because they're so used to it by then that they know how to handle things."

"And what do you think that means for Vincent?" He asked.

"If you're comparing where he was to where he is now, you're probably looking at a nonenhanced-to-Third style jump," Kunsel said. He paused, considering. "Honestly you might have that kind of continued improvement, too. Not necessarily in strength, but in handling his enhancements - speed, managing enhanced senses like smell and the general sensing energy thing he's doing now, stuff like that."

"Hone it and get better, standard for anyone," Veld said, nodding. It helped that you could apply logic to it.

"Yeah, that." Kunsel nodded. "He and Zack should work together some more, when they have the chance. It'll be good for both of them, and it's about the best matchup you're going to get."

"You'd place Vincent's eventual level up with the top of SOLDIER, then," Veld said.

"When he's pushed," Kunsel agreed. "He doesn't seem… he pulls off looking confident, don't get me wrong. The man's got a poker face to kill for. 'Tentative' isn't the right word, and I don't know that 'uncertain' is quite right either. But he doesn't know what he's capable of yet. In anyone else I'd call it unsure."

"Fair enough," Veld said. He knew what he meant, and could read it even clearer in how Vincent handled himself. "He's still testing himself."

"Yeah." Kunsel smiled faintly. "You're going to have yourself a real heavy hitter, when he adjusts. You might not need us to take AVALANCHE on."

"He's just one man, there's a lot of Ravens still," Veld said.

"I think you know I didn't really mean all of AVALANCHE," Kunsel said.

Veld hummed quietly. That was a conversation he wasn't having, not with SOLDIER. Not even this SOLDIER, who he had to admit he was starting to like more than most.

Kunsel watched him a moment in silence, clearly weighing his words. "You should talk to Rayleigh, later. When you get her back, you're going to need to do something about that materia."

Zack calling for Kunsel saved Veld from having to respond, but he couldn't help but go still at his wording.

When you get her back.

Such a little thing to say, such an offhand comment. He couldn't have known how much that meant.