Chaos Angel, this is my last response. I have a feeling that you won't agree. No, I'm quite sure of it. It's sort of a summary of what I've been trying to say.
!@#$%^&*&^%$#@!@#$%^&*&^%$#@!@#$%^&*&^%$#@!
The Scriptures:
The thing about the Scriptures: People can twist and perverse them to say pretty much whatever they want. (And if the Bible says something they don't like, they look up the same scripture in KJV or another version and make it something else.) Let's have a look at your example of idols, Angel. You used Exodus 25:18: "And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." Ah, yes, but what did you forget to mention? The text used here was taken from the passage when God was telling Moses what to do for the ARK OF THE COVENANT. The two cherubims were placed on top of the Ark, and the Ten Commandments inside. Once finished, the Ark became the seat of God, and that is where the people worshipped GOD.
Sins can also be watered down. You talk of a homosexual man who in the future may discover the cure for cancer. Yes, he will have saved thousands of lives. You say,"Because of WHO this man has chosen to love, he will be sent to Hell?" It is not WHO this man has chosen to love, it is HOW. This man has grossly breached romantic love. God states clearly in the Bible that homosexuality is a SIN. If you are a Christian, you know that sin DOES get you into Hell. I'll talk more about that later. The main point here is: IT WILL NOT MATTER IN THE END IF THIS MAN SAVED HUMANITY; IT WILL MATTER HOW HE RELATED TO JESUS. If he blew him off as merely a great prophet...well, he might have saved the world, but he lost his soul.
Another thing - You complained that we were using the Bible and God's words to correct you, when you don't believe in the Bible. Well, you asked questions of the Bible, and I used it to give you answers. You asked how God could be a certain way, I used His words to correct you. When someone challenges Christianity, Christians are going to use the basis of their faith to back them up. (By the way, you yourself tried to use it to correct me! Why in the world would you back yourself up with something you don't believe, also while you're arguing AGAINST it?)
Faith:
Yes, a lot of what I believe is faith. So is anything else. For a sort of 'object lesson': Have you ever been to the Antarctic? People say that it is there, and you see pictures, but couldn't it all be some scam? You have no proof by yourself that the Antarctic actually exists, yet you believe that it does. Evolution is faith. No one saw the Big Bang. No one's yet found proof (that hasn't been a hoax) of ape-men who roamed Africa. The fact that the Ark sailed the Earth is faith. Were you there to see it fail? Was I there to see it succeed? No. Man cannot live without faith. It is part of hope, and of every life.
Heaven and Hell; Sin:
John 3:16: "...that whosoever believeth shall not perish but have everlasting life." If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and rose on the third day, accept Him into your heart and follow Him, then you are saved. We are told that if someone rejects Christianity and the chance to follow Christ, they are unsaved (i.e. yes, destined for Hell), until they accept Christ. But, as far as telling whether or not someone is truly saved, I usually can't. I cannot see people as God sees them; which is, not of the external appearance, but deep inside their hearts. I don't know if God is going to condemn those people in far away, remote islands that have never even had a chance to accept or reject him. Only He knows what will happen on Judgment Day.
Sin is, essentially, every rebellion against God, every command that you ignore or break outright. I believe that since I have accepted what Jesus has done for me, He has taken it away, and that every time I sin against Him, all I need do is ask, and I'm wiped clean again. And I do sin, I always have, I always will, as long as I'm on Earth; everyone does.
The Trinity; God:
Mark 15:34 - "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice: "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" -which means,"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" I told you that you wouldn't be able to understand it! No human can understand how God is split into three deities, and yet still one. I can't, you can't, no one. As I said before, there are some aspects of God that we'll never understand.
God created you; He is not you. If you accept Jesus, you are saved. Jesus living in your heart does not give you the power of God. God has a say, no, THE say in everything that goes on in our lives. As He has let His son into our hearts, Jesus lives in us; but we do NOT have his power.
Other Religions:
I'll restate what I said: Christians are free to believe CERTAIN ASPECTS of other religions; the aspects that DO NOT conflict with the Bible. If you want the quote, here it is: 'If you are Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through....If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth....But, of course, being a Christian does mean that thinking where Christianity differs from other religions, Christianity is right and they are wrong: but some of the wrong answers are much nearer being right than others.' - C.S. Lewis Well, that's my case there. You not being Christian, you may not make a lot of sense out of that.
In closing:
Well, that's all I'm going to say on the matter. But, I noticed, Angel, that your response is labeled 'General/Humor.' You seem to take the fate of the world rather lightly. Let me give you a quote, also from Lewis, that I like to call 'Aslan's Final Stand.'
'A great difficulty is to keep before people's minds the question of Truth. They always think we are recommending Christianity not because it is TRUE but because it is GOOD. And in the discussion they will at every moment try to escape from the issue: "True - or False" into stuff about the Spanish Inquisition, or France, or Poland - or anything whatever. We have to keep forcing them back, and again back, to the real point. Only thus will we be able to undermine their belief that a certain amount of "religion" is desirable but one mustn't carry it too far. We must keep on pointing out that CHRISTIANITY IS A STATEMENT WHICH, IF FALSE, IS OF NO IMPORTANCE, AND, IF TRUE, OF INFINITE IMPORTANCE. THE ONE THING IT CANNOT BE IS MODERATELY IMPORTANT.' - C.S. Lewis Cambridge, England 1944
I have nothing else to say; except that I hope I never start anything else like this 'debate' again. Tha i breagha an-diugh.
Love,
Lilly
!@#$%^&*&^%$#@!@#$%^&*&^%$#@!@#$%^&*&^%$#@!
The Scriptures:
The thing about the Scriptures: People can twist and perverse them to say pretty much whatever they want. (And if the Bible says something they don't like, they look up the same scripture in KJV or another version and make it something else.) Let's have a look at your example of idols, Angel. You used Exodus 25:18: "And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." Ah, yes, but what did you forget to mention? The text used here was taken from the passage when God was telling Moses what to do for the ARK OF THE COVENANT. The two cherubims were placed on top of the Ark, and the Ten Commandments inside. Once finished, the Ark became the seat of God, and that is where the people worshipped GOD.
Sins can also be watered down. You talk of a homosexual man who in the future may discover the cure for cancer. Yes, he will have saved thousands of lives. You say,"Because of WHO this man has chosen to love, he will be sent to Hell?" It is not WHO this man has chosen to love, it is HOW. This man has grossly breached romantic love. God states clearly in the Bible that homosexuality is a SIN. If you are a Christian, you know that sin DOES get you into Hell. I'll talk more about that later. The main point here is: IT WILL NOT MATTER IN THE END IF THIS MAN SAVED HUMANITY; IT WILL MATTER HOW HE RELATED TO JESUS. If he blew him off as merely a great prophet...well, he might have saved the world, but he lost his soul.
Another thing - You complained that we were using the Bible and God's words to correct you, when you don't believe in the Bible. Well, you asked questions of the Bible, and I used it to give you answers. You asked how God could be a certain way, I used His words to correct you. When someone challenges Christianity, Christians are going to use the basis of their faith to back them up. (By the way, you yourself tried to use it to correct me! Why in the world would you back yourself up with something you don't believe, also while you're arguing AGAINST it?)
Faith:
Yes, a lot of what I believe is faith. So is anything else. For a sort of 'object lesson': Have you ever been to the Antarctic? People say that it is there, and you see pictures, but couldn't it all be some scam? You have no proof by yourself that the Antarctic actually exists, yet you believe that it does. Evolution is faith. No one saw the Big Bang. No one's yet found proof (that hasn't been a hoax) of ape-men who roamed Africa. The fact that the Ark sailed the Earth is faith. Were you there to see it fail? Was I there to see it succeed? No. Man cannot live without faith. It is part of hope, and of every life.
Heaven and Hell; Sin:
John 3:16: "...that whosoever believeth shall not perish but have everlasting life." If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and rose on the third day, accept Him into your heart and follow Him, then you are saved. We are told that if someone rejects Christianity and the chance to follow Christ, they are unsaved (i.e. yes, destined for Hell), until they accept Christ. But, as far as telling whether or not someone is truly saved, I usually can't. I cannot see people as God sees them; which is, not of the external appearance, but deep inside their hearts. I don't know if God is going to condemn those people in far away, remote islands that have never even had a chance to accept or reject him. Only He knows what will happen on Judgment Day.
Sin is, essentially, every rebellion against God, every command that you ignore or break outright. I believe that since I have accepted what Jesus has done for me, He has taken it away, and that every time I sin against Him, all I need do is ask, and I'm wiped clean again. And I do sin, I always have, I always will, as long as I'm on Earth; everyone does.
The Trinity; God:
Mark 15:34 - "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice: "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" -which means,"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" I told you that you wouldn't be able to understand it! No human can understand how God is split into three deities, and yet still one. I can't, you can't, no one. As I said before, there are some aspects of God that we'll never understand.
God created you; He is not you. If you accept Jesus, you are saved. Jesus living in your heart does not give you the power of God. God has a say, no, THE say in everything that goes on in our lives. As He has let His son into our hearts, Jesus lives in us; but we do NOT have his power.
Other Religions:
I'll restate what I said: Christians are free to believe CERTAIN ASPECTS of other religions; the aspects that DO NOT conflict with the Bible. If you want the quote, here it is: 'If you are Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through....If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth....But, of course, being a Christian does mean that thinking where Christianity differs from other religions, Christianity is right and they are wrong: but some of the wrong answers are much nearer being right than others.' - C.S. Lewis Well, that's my case there. You not being Christian, you may not make a lot of sense out of that.
In closing:
Well, that's all I'm going to say on the matter. But, I noticed, Angel, that your response is labeled 'General/Humor.' You seem to take the fate of the world rather lightly. Let me give you a quote, also from Lewis, that I like to call 'Aslan's Final Stand.'
'A great difficulty is to keep before people's minds the question of Truth. They always think we are recommending Christianity not because it is TRUE but because it is GOOD. And in the discussion they will at every moment try to escape from the issue: "True - or False" into stuff about the Spanish Inquisition, or France, or Poland - or anything whatever. We have to keep forcing them back, and again back, to the real point. Only thus will we be able to undermine their belief that a certain amount of "religion" is desirable but one mustn't carry it too far. We must keep on pointing out that CHRISTIANITY IS A STATEMENT WHICH, IF FALSE, IS OF NO IMPORTANCE, AND, IF TRUE, OF INFINITE IMPORTANCE. THE ONE THING IT CANNOT BE IS MODERATELY IMPORTANT.' - C.S. Lewis Cambridge, England 1944
I have nothing else to say; except that I hope I never start anything else like this 'debate' again. Tha i breagha an-diugh.
Love,
Lilly