Transcript of Interview: Dr. Henry Jones
Interviewers: Det. A. Eames, Det. R. Goren
Eames: Good morning, Dr. Jones. Thanks for taking time out of your day to speak to us; we know you're busy.
Jones: I wouldn't expect you to postpone your investigation just because it didn't happen to be convenient for me.
Eames: Thanks, we don't often get to talk to people who can think that reasonably when faced with a policeman and a tape recorder. Speaking of which, would you please state your name and occupation for the tape?
Jones: Dr. Henry Jones, chair of the Department of Linguistics at Empire State University
Eames: And your connection to Dr. Li?
Jones: I was his . . . officially his supervisor, I suppose, but more like a colleague, in reality
Goren: Were you, uh, friends? Socialize at all?
Jones: We socialized at department and school events, to some extent. You know, colloquia, luncheons, that sort of thing. I wouldn't call us friends, though. James tended to hold himself aloof.
Goren: From you?
Jones: From everybody.
Eames: Do you know anyone who was close to him, who could maybe provide us with more details about his life?
Jones: Dr. Robi, perhaps. Their research ran along the same lines, so they spent a lot of time exchanging ideas
Eames: Ok, I'll make a note to speak to him. Do you have his office number?
Jones: 4026. Down the hall and to the right.
Goren: Thanks. Can you give us . . . some insight into his personal life? Did he maybe have enemies, rivals?
Jones: Enemies . . . well, academia can be kind of cutthroat and petty a lot of the time, so I suppose it's possible that he was in a feud with someone . . .
Eames: Like who?
Jones: Oh, I wouldn't know -
Goren: Guess. If you had to make a list, who would you say was most likely to argue with him?
Jones: I suppose you mean here at Empire State. Academic rivals would mostly be scattered all over the country, maybe the world.
Goren: Ok, let's keep it limited to people here for now. We'll worry about the long-distance people later.
Jones: Umm . . . Sandra Adams was often at odds with James - but usually just because he was rude to her, not because of some big feud.
Eames: You'd be surprised how far a little rudeness can go. Any reason he was rude to her, in particular?
Jones: James . . . liked to make himself feel superior. The fact that Sandy is female made her an easy target when he was looking to feed his ego.
Eames: Was their relationship strictly professional, or was it personal also?
Jones: You mean like dating? I wouldn't know. Short of them kissing at a staff meeting, I would have no way to get that information.
Goren: That's fine, Henry. Can you think of anyone else who might have had . . . trouble with Dr. Li?
Jones: I suppose Murph might . . .
Eames: Murph?
Jones: Fred Murphy, the ex-department chair. He was always on Jame's back to act more like a teacher and less like a competitor to his students. James resented the hell out of it. By the time Fred retired, the whole department was on tenterhooks trying to keep them apart so we didn't end up with a fist fight. But really, Fred is not the type of person who would kill another human being! I really don't think any of the people I'm telling you about had a good reason to murder him - and even if they did, we're academics, for god's sake! We just theorize about things, we don't actually do them!
Eames: You're probably right, but it's our job to get all this information so we can rule them out.
Jones: James just wasn't well-liked, in general. There could be dozens of people he's made enemies of, and that's not even counting his students.
Goren: His students? Did they . . . dislike him?
Jones: He was famous for being . . . a stickler, I guess you could say. He expected students to make his classes and his research their top priorities, no matter what. A lot of them couldn't, or wouldn't, do that, and they had trouble with him because of it.
Goren: What, exactly, do you mean by "trouble"?
Jones: I don't know how familiar either of you is with the academic hierarchy, but a professor who takes a dislike to a student can make that student's life very difficult without much effort. For example, an offhand comment to a colleague that the kid tends to slack off could make most of the department think they're not worth funding. Grading the kid's papers just a tad harder than everyone else's . . . you get the picture
Goren: That's . . . very interesting, thank you. We have these class lists here; do you think you could point out which students were in that kind of situation?
Jones: I can try, but it'll really only be gossip. You'd be better off talking to Bhat; he might have heard it from the horse's mouth.
Goren: Bhat?
Jones: Dr. Robi
Eames: We're going to make sure to talk to him later today. In the meantime, though, who can you pick out - even only as possibilities?
Jones: Ok, well . . . Sara King and Jana Wu both got his typical "female treatment," so they probably weren't on good terms with him. Jim Owens and Alejandro Torreira are both good, which might lead to ego clashes. Andrew Kim . . . you know, you might be able to get more information on James from him. He was his favorite advisee; they spent a lot of time closeted in his office.
Goren: That's great, thank you.
Eames: Thank you again, Dr. Jones. We'd appreciate it if you could avoid discussing this interview with anyone in the department until we've spoken to everyone we need to.
Jones: Sure.
Eames: Thanks.
End Interview
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Goren typed the last few lines of the conversation they'd had with Henry Jones, leaned back in his chair, and stretched. His fingers were cramping already, and they were probably going to have a dozen more of these to type by the time they finished the investigation. "Next one's yours, Eames," he said, catching her eye across their desks.
"Oh, I don't think so. I won the bet, remember?"
"What bet?" asked Deakins, catching her last few words as he came out of his office.
"Paperwork," the two detectives said in unison.
"A bet about paperwork?" Deakins shook his head. "And I thought my gambling habits were boring."
"Trust me, it's better than it sounds," Eames said, directing a smug look at Goren. "So, did you need us for something?"
"Updates?"
Goren gestured to the computer monitor. "We spent the morning doing interviews at the school. I just finished transcribing the department chair's; you want me to e-mail it to you?"
"Yeah," Deakins said, turning back toward his office. "And keep me posted on the rest of them. Oh, and guys?"
Eames looked at him innocently. "Hmm?"
"Unlicensed gambling's illegal in this city."
Eames grinned, watching Deakins retreat into his glass-walled office and close the door. "Little does he know."
"Don't gloat. How many more do I have to go?"
"For now, just one: Sandra Adams. I'm trying to line up interviews with Murphy and Rabi right now."
"Mmm." Resigned to his task, he turned back to the computer.
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Transcript of Interview: Dr. Sandra Adams
Interviewers: Det. A. Eames, Det. R. Goren
Goren: Thanks for speaking to us, Dr. Adams
Adams: No problem. I can't believe something like this actually happened to someone I know . . .
Eames: Would you please state your name and occupation for our tape recorder?
Adams: Dr. Sandra Adams. I'm a professor of linguistics at Empire State University.
Eames: And what was your relationship with Dr. Li?
Adams: We were co-workers.
Goren: Did you . . . get along with him? Professionally, I mean.
Adams: Well, uh . . . professionally, we were ok. Personally, we didn't get along.
Eames: What do you mean by "personally"?
Adams: What? Oh, no - no way! Not that kind of "personal." I meant that when it came to functioning within the department's confines, we got along ok, but our personal opinions about a lot of things . . . clashed.
Eames: Can you give us some examples?
Adams: Um . . . well he had this bad habit of questioning the other professors, aggressively. He'd listen to a presentation of your research, and then instead of asking questions that would help him understand or help the speaker know where they could go next, he'd ask questions designed to tear the speaker's argument apart.
Goren: Professional competition.
Adams: To some extent. I think he also just did it because he enjoyed embarrassing other people, though. Me, for example.
Eames: You?
Adams: I was one of his favorite targets. He thinks . . . I mean thought that women's capabilities were almost automatically inferior.
Goren: So he'd be especially hard on your presentations?
Adams: Yes.
Eames: Did he treat other women the same way? Or was it just you?
Adams: I think he probably treated all women like that, but since I'm one of the few women in this department, it always seemed to come down on me.
Goren: So you . . . disliked him.
Adams: I thought he was an asshole, yeah. But if you're . . . I mean, if you think I might have killed him, you're wrong. I think a lot of other people are assholes, too, and I haven't killed anyone, ever.
Eames: We're still trying to develop a hypothesis about his death; we don't think anyone in particular is more or less likely to have done it at this point.
Adams: Ok. Good. I just wanted to say that.
Eames: No problem. We understand that this can be nerve-wracking.
Goren: Can you tell us anything about Dr. Li's interactions with his students? Other professors?
Adams: Well, he treated his female students a lot like how he treated me - I know that.
Eames: How do you know that?
Adams: A few of them spoke to me about it.
Eames: Can you think of any of their names?
Adams: Jana Wu mentioned it to me once. Sara King didn't come to me, but I heard rumors that she was having trouble with him.
Goren: King and Wu. Eames, haven't we heard them mentioned before?
Eames: Dr. Jones had them in his list of students who didn't get along with Li.
Goren: Right, exactly. So it's not just you, Dr. Adams. So, did you hear any other . . . rumors about Dr. Li?
Adams: We're not a gossip mill. I didn't mean to make it sound like that.
Eames: We know. I'm sure Detective Goren didn't mean to imply that.
Goren: Right, I didn't. Sorry. How about this: can you tell us anything about how Li interacted with other students and teachers? Things you might have observed?
Adams: Ok, let me think for a second. Henry - Dr. Jones - got along with James ok. They weren't good friends, but Henry tolerated him better than most of us. Bhat and James collaborated a lot, so I think they were friendly.
Eames: 'Bhat' is Dr. Robi, right?
Adams: Right. Uh, Murphy pretty much hated him. That's Fred Murphy; he's retired now but he was chair before Henry took over. He thought James wasn't a good teacher.
Goren: Do you have any idea why he thought that?
Adams: This is a big research school. Have you ever heard the phrase "publish or perish"?
Eames: Yes
Goren: Uh-huh
Adams: Well, James published a lot. The problem was that he really only cared about doing research and publishing. He only taught because he had to, in order to get funding for his work.
Goren: So he was . . . unsympathetic?
Adams: Yeah. He wouldn't put in any extra effort to mentor students, or really even just help them. They were kind of . . . nuisances to him, getting in the way of his research time.
Goren: I can see how that could be a problem for his students.
Adams: I know that among the students he had a reputation for grading way too harshly.
Eames: What constitutes "too harshly"?
Adams: Well . . . students who got A's in other classes would struggle for B's in James's classes.
Eames: Ah. If I were a student, I'd be pissed to have that happen.
Adams: They were. But you have to understand, students come here kind of expecting that they'll be beaten down. No one advertises grad school as a feel-good experience. They may have been frustrated, but I have a hard time believing that he made life so hard that it would be worthwhile to kill him.
Goren: When it comes to competitive atmospheres, you never know. We've seen some highly improbable things in our work, and they're not as rare as you may think.
Eames: Can you think of anything else that might be useful for our investigation?
Adams: No . . .
Eames: That's fine. Here's my card; please don't hesitate to call if you think of any more details or have any questions.
Adams: Ok, thanks.
End Interview
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By the time Goren had finished typing both statements - each of which he emailed to Eames and Deakins - he'd used up what little of the morning they hadn't already spent conducting the interviews.
The two detectives had just started to eat their lunches when Deakins knocked on Eames's desk as he walked past. "Status report, guys. My office." Eying the lunches scattered over their desks, he added, "You can bring your food."
"A working lunch," Eames muttered. "Great." Resigned to their fate, they gathered up the newly-typed statements, their lunches, and Goren's portfolio and followed the Captain into his office.
"I've got copies of two statements in my inbox," Deakins said before they'd even had a chance to sit down. "Who, what, where, why?"
Eames decided to take pity on Goren, whose breakfast had consisted of a handful of grapes and a large black coffee, and let him eat for a few minutes while she spoke. "Ok, well, the first interview was with Henry Jones, the department chair. He claims to have been friendly, but not friends, with the vic."
"Was he able to provide any background on Li?"
Goren hastily swallowed his bite of ham and cheese. "James Li was pretty consistently disliked. The only exceptions we found were another professor he did research with, and a pet student."
"The professor's name is Bhat Robi," Eames interjected. "I have an appointment to speak to him this afternoon."
Goren nodded. "But other than those two, people seemed to universally think that he was arrogant, impatient, and hyper-competitive."
"Sounds like an all-around good guy," Deakins joked. "Did you get any other leads?"
"He made a habit of antagonizing women," Eames said, "including another professor - that's the Sandra Adams interview you have - and two grad students, Sara King and Jana Wu."
"Oh, that'll play well with the media," Deakins said sarcastically. Framing the headline in his hands as he spoke it, he intoned, " 'Feminists Knock off Chauvinist Academic. Details at 11.' At least everyone will be pissed at us for that one."
"Maybe," Goren said. "If the women did it."
"You don't think they did?" asked Eames, starting to regret not having time to discuss the case with Goren before this meeting with the Captain.
"I think there are too many other viable suspects for us to . . . zero in on the women yet," he said. "I mean, we have the philosophical rival, Murphy. Maybe he was trying to . . . make the world a better place by removing Li. Then there's the colleague whose career he was holding back, Sandra Adams. Any one of the grad students could have had a bone to pick with him, maybe over something as simple as a test grade. It could even have been the 'friend,' Robi - he was most likely to consider Li 'direct competition.'"
Eames sighed. "We've got our work cut out for us."
Deakins gave them a smile. "Yeah, and that's why I put our best detectives on the case. Now, go get started. Keep me posted."
"Yes, sir," Eames said, snitching the last bite of Goren's sandwich as they stood. "C'mon, partner."
Goren, in retaliation, grabbed the apple that Eames had set aside from her lunch and took a bite. Giving her a knowing smile, he waved the apple triumphantly at Deakins and followed his partner out of the room, keeping the fruit out of Eames's reach.