Sitting around as he smoked, Herman asks why David wanted to know so much about Mackie as a child, leading David into telling him that he doesn't know what happened, but something did, and it forced Mackie into erasing his memory from David's mother.
Hearing this didn't surprise Herman as he puffed smoke from his wooden pipe, before he thoughtfully said, "I might've taught him some tricks, but I never taught him that. There's some things that needs to stay in the past."
Herman adamantly tells David that he never taught Mackie how to wipe memories of himself from the mind of David's mother. Swearing that there's things even older than him that haven't been in circulation for centuries end.
"That kind of technique isn't something you use to get out of paying a parking fee, I'll tell you that. This was one of the "end all" options," Herman says that wiping memories isn't easily used to get out of paying fees and bills, it's only used when there's nothing left on the table, and it's ambiguous uses led the Council into banning it, preventing it from re-emerging into the forefront by suppressing people who knew it.
It takes major toll on everybody who used it, puts them in a mental fog from hell for weeks on end, a sort of deterrence, and even seasoned people couldn't escape the side effects if they tried.
Herman doesn't remember anyone during his time on Gallifrey that used the technique, but wouldn't be surprising if they just couldn't remember doing so, it took it out everyone that used it that memory loss themselves wouldn't surprise Herman.
"I doubt they even have a scroll detailing it left," Herman summed that he doesn't know how Mackie learnt the technique.
No way for him to stumble upon it by playing around with his telepathy, do it wrong, he or David's mother dies of an aneurysm from hell.
Imagine the scene from that horror movie with the burnt man dragging someone into their bed and the blood shoots up, but have it internally.
Even without recollection from people who use it, there were still warnings.
"So, why would you want to know that, except for maybe, cheating taxes?" Lila asks what applications the technique would've served if it was used as Herman thoughtfully thinks while smoke plumed from the wooden pipe, a peppery smell emitted from it.
Shrugging his shoulders, Herman says that he remembers it was used against Daleks, it originally came from interrogating them on whereabouts of garrisons on Gallifrey, when it was a green planet, where they stashed their bombs, whatever.
It was never meant to be used on anyone else except Daleks, maybe that's why there's heavy mental fog when people used it, because until then, Herman never heard anything about the side effects.
"Keeps them from knowing, kept us safe, 'till they got pissed at us enough they just wanted us gone, damn scavenging our remains," Herman summed that the technique fell out of favour during the Time War when the Daleks no longer wanted to ravage Gallifrey for everything it had after losing so many times, that they went for the nuclear option.
It resulted in everything that happened thereafter.
"Fascinating," Theodore's intrigued about the untold history that he was never told about, even from his uncle and father, but Herman said that the Council's rigid and wouldn't let anyone talk about things they deemed out of favour, even out of earshot.
There's a look on David's face as he's processing what Herman told him and what he knew about his father, how his father used the technique on his mother to wipe his memories, and the effort he went through doing it.
Hearing Herman, it wasn't something that his father came to the conclusion over coffee, it was the end all, and he took risks doing it, knowing if he failed in any capacity, he or David's mother would've died.
Lining up to someone killing him, David played back the scenario.
His father stayed with his mother during her pregnancy, something happened that made him leave shortly before David was born, something to do with someone he was searching for, that he thought it was safer for her not to remember him, and used the technique to wipe memories of himself from her mind.
Whoever it was, David assumed never found out about her or did and because of the memory wipe, didn't think much about it, moved on, he doesn't know.
All he know's that it explained why his mother couldn't remember, why he always saw her mind cloudy whenever he tried to look for memories of his father, that it was the technique.
"Something's bothering you, what is it?" Herman instantly caught the discomfort from David as he informed the old Time Lord that his father looked for someone up until his death, and whoever it was killed him.
Someone dangerous enough that it pushed his father into using the technique on his mother in a bid to keep her safe.
His dark eyes mirroring the smoke as he poured out the used ashes in the ashtray outside, Herman quieted for minutes, before he looked towards David and said with a surprised, "Mace's dead?"
Nodding, David tells him that he doesn't know who's responsible for it, but he's aiming to find the answer to his question.
Looking towards Theodore and Lila, Herman deduced, "You've got questions, too."
Theodore tells him that since they've started, it's always been questions, but they haven't had any answers, everywhere he looked, he couldn't find them.
"I don't suppose you know anything about a man with lavender eyes, do you?" Theodore threw out a question that's bothered him terribly, only for Herman with dull expression pouring more of his concoction into the wooden pipe, lighting it once more.
Shaking his head, Herman says he doesn't know anyone with lavender eyes, must've been before his time.
"Would you happen to know medical science, some variant?" Lila asked her own question, opting to ask someone who had no reason to give candied responses.
Pondering, Herman says that he isn't sure if it's anything that's worth it to her, only for Theodore to describe the haphazard notes that Paul wrote in his journal.
As he heard this, Herman shrugs, saying that without the whole equation or decipher, he can't make heads or tails on what they told him.
"What about, is it possible to transplant someone's heart to another, have them come back to life?" Theodore then reframed the question, causing Herman to chortle, smoke puffing in tandem to the chortling.
Calming down, Herman muses that they watched too many movies, but Theodore swears they helped euthanize a woman who miraculously revived in another woman's body, via her heart, and they haven't been able to find answers on how that happened.
Describing it to Herman as it was to Theodore, Theodore watched his expression dully change to something else, before he says that he never heard anything like that, that it's impossible for a heart, an organ that's certainly not a brain, to revive and overwrite someone's body with the template of the owner.
"Well, someone did and we believe he's also responsible for the coins," Theodore tells Herman that the person he's inquiring about also gave coins, which due to Theodore losing the one he taken from Professor Stanford, can't show to Herman.
He noticed a look in Herman's eyes, before he told him that he doesn't know any coin like that.
Looking at the time on his pocket watch, Herman stood up, saying that this meeting's over, his daughter's on her way.
Putting out the quiet ember in his wooden pipe, Herman tells the three that his knowledge's based on his time in school and when he lived next to the river.
"Doesn't seem right to exile a kid for trying to save his people," Lila noted the unfairness of the Council exiling Herman and he mused that it must've been the first time they exiled an eighteen-year-old, a child in their eyes, causing Lila to stare at him in awe.
As he nods, Herman pointed towards Theodore and David, saying they're teenagers on Gallifrey.
"Teenagers?" Both men looked at Herman, causing him to let out a rare chuckle, before informing them that because of their long lives, they have a different view on age groups.
Children only become teenagers when they're in their early thirties.
You're not considered an adult until at least two-three hundred years old nor are you old until maybe six hundred years, minimum.
"That long?" Lila mused as they followed Herman back inside the building.
Shrugging, Herman tells her that it's a mix of gene splicing and whatnot, something the Council doesn't acknowledge anymore.
"Why two hearts?" Lila asks what purposes of evolving and splicing in genes for two hearts.
Turning back to face her briefly, Herman said, "Environmental."
Leading Lila into sharing looks with Theodore and David.
Returning to the area, Herman stretched out his lanky arms as he asked if there's anything more for them to ask him, only for them to say there isn't, and they'll be out of his hair.
"Hm, stay out of trouble kids," Herman tells them not to cause any trouble unless it's beneficial.
Only if there's no other way of doing it, of course.
He saw them off and waited for his daughter, a look on his face.
"That bastard," Herman muttered under his breathe, having an internal conversation with himself with his arms crossed as he waited for River. "And the Council let you walk away!"
THE END