Double Trouble
By: Verin Mystal
Summary: Alfred invites Arthur to the Consumer Electronics's show in Las Vegas. On their last night in town, they are accidentally turned into children.
Note: This was originally written for two requests on the Kink Meme. This fic is full of crack and is not meant to be taken seriously. With that said, I hope someone out there enjoys it. I own nothing but the crack filled ideas of this story.

A/n: I hope I got some of the British slang correct. I had nothing to use, save for the internet, and we all know how reliable that can be :(

England was a nation with a thousand years of history. He had seen Rome, the huge, battle scarred nation in the last few hundred years of his life. He had survived the dark ages, the black death, invasion, fought endless wars and battles, raised dozens of colonies, traveled the world as a huge empire, dealt with squabbling independence-declaring children, seen the horrors of the world wars… he was a nation of honor and quiet strength.

England sat on a neon yellow plastic chair, arms crossed over his chest, and listened to the screaming American children running around him.

"Never… in all my long years have I been so insulted."

"This is your fault. We wouldn't even be here if it hadn't been for that stupid potion of yours."

"Well maybe if you would have left me alone to take an ice bath in peace-!"

"Oh so it's my fault?" America glared at him. "Sorry, but I didn't see you resisting too hard when I was sucking on your-!"

"-Because you never know when to quit!" England huffed and turned away, trying to refocus himself on the current situation at hand. "We need to get out of here."

"Too bad that lady is standing near the only exit." America grumbled.

"A distraction then." England stood and started searching through the throng of children, becoming desperate. "That's easy enough."

"…What are you going to do?" America asked, his large blue eyes suspicious.

England smirked, but it came out cheesy on his soft, youthfully round face. "Watch me. Oh, and be ready to tattle."

Finding the tallest child with the biggest mouth, England marched up to him and, putting his entire body into it, shoved the kid into a group of boys. The boys cried out in surprised and turned to glare at England, who was far smaller in stature. England stood as tall as his three feet 2 inches could and insulted the other boy's intelligence and his mother in the same sentence; a brawl broke out and the kids all flocked around.

America stared for a moment in slight surprise. I wonder… England seems kind of… experienced at this…? I bet it's from him dealing with his brothers…

America then rushed up to the lady, who was glued to her cell phone, and patted her arm. "Hey! Uh… Lady! There's a fight."

The tiny nation pointed behind him at the brawl of screaming and yelling children.

"What did I say about bothering me- Oh!" The lady quickly hung up and rushed over to the group. America followed, trying to extract England from the brawl when another boy suddenly grabbed America's hair, specifically Nantucket, and pulled.

"Gaah!" America fell to his knees and grabbed the hand that was pulling on Nantucket, cursing his weakness."S-stop! England-"

England, hearing America, crashed into the hair-pulling boy and grabbed his hand. "Let go!"

The boy wrestled with the two of them, all of them yelling and kicking and biting.

"Ah! I-I…can't…" America dug his fingernails into the boy and wondered how he, who could bench press steam engines, could be reduced to nothing but a quivering, bumbling mess with just one pull of his stray hair. "Let…go…!"

"Bloody tosser, let-!"

There was a sudden explosion of smoke. The dark, murky blackness filled the room and within seconds, fire alarms were screeching. There were shouts and confusion, hacking and coughing. England grabbed America's hand and dragged him away, trying to get out of the choking blackness. Heading in the general direction of the exit, England made it past the glitzy glass and gold-trim doors and outside, past the drop-off zone and into the parking, where he finally stopped to breath and cough up the remains of the smoke from his lungs.

"Guh…" England croaked intelligently, his red, irritated eyes watering. "What the hell was that?"

"Goodness… what happened?" Came a soft, feminine voice from behind him. "…And look at all these cars… I don't think I've ever seen so many! Are we in New York?"

England froze, dread overcoming him at the thought of having pulled the wrong person out and turned around.

A young teenager sat on the pavement before him. Her golden hair, both wavy and curly, reached the middle of her neck. A dark green gown, looking oddly Greek inspired, was draped around her. Atop her head sat a crown that looked oddly similar to… to…

England gawked. No bloody way... this can't be right...

The girl looked at him for a moment before recognition flashed.

"Artie?"

"A-artie??" England sputtered. "W-what… how…??"

The teenager smiled and took his tiny hands within her own. "You must be England… right? We've never met but… my kids have told me all about you! Although… you're much smaller… and younger than I expected…"

"Y-your kids??" England's voice raised a couple decibels. "You mean… the states?"

"Of course, who else would I mean?" The lady smiled and squeezed his hands. "Now Artie-"

"-England-" …She calls them her kids too??...

"-tell me where we are? I can't remember anything from America's memories."

England pulled his hands away, his round cheeks flushing at the contact. America has an alter ego like me? I wonder why he never told me…

"First of all… who are you… exactly?"

"Well… my official title is Lady Liberty. But all my states call me mom… oh it feels like it's been forever since I last saw them!" England could help but notice a slight southern drawl to her accent. "I wonder how they're faring still…"

England's huge green eyes trailed down her form, pausing a moment at her chest. Soft…

"Artie?"

England tore his eyes away from her curvaceous figure, flushing pink. I'm a child now, remember?! I can't be gawking…

"We're in Las Vegas." England stated as if that explained everything. "You invited me to some electronics expo…"

The girl blinked and looked around. "This… is Las Vegas? Las Vegas… Nevada??"

"Yes. We're in Nevada."

"Why that can't be possible! This town was just a bump in the road… Nevada is still so little!"

England narrowed his eyes in confusion. "Liberty… what year is this? Do you remember?"

"Well… the last I remember it was 1922-"

"1922??" England gasped. "It's been that long?"

Liberty stared at England in concern. "What year is it now?"

"…Um… 2010."

The girl gasped. "No! 2010?? Wow… no wonder everything looks so different! Golly…"

Just then the screeching fire-engine sirens blared from a short distance away, speeding towards the smoking casino. The girl jumped and grabbed onto England, but instead of clinging to him in fear, as England secretly hoped but would go to his grave before admitting, she held onto him protectively, mashing England's body into her chest. Silently, he cursed his rotten luck and damned his child-body.

"That noise! What… is that a fire truck??"

England rolled his eyes and tried prying her arms from around him, only to find out she seemed to be gifted with America's insane strength as well. "Ah… Yes. Can you… let me go?"

"Oh! Sorry." Liberty released him. "So… Artie… tell me why you're so young? My kids told me-"

"America and I drank accidentally drank this potion and it turned us into children." England interjected. "We tried getting clothes, got sent to daycare by some louse, and while we were trying to escape some…child was pulling on your hair… there was smoke and… here we are."

Several hours passed before the casino allowed guests back into their rooms. By then, it was well past midnight, and England was dead on his feet.

"Lets… go back to our room." England yawned loudly and gripped Liberty's hand. "We're on the… 21st floor… room 385…"

Liberty nodded and escorted England into the building, no one batting an eyelash at her strange dress and head gear. Taking the elevator, they traveled up to their floor, and found their room, still a mess from earlier.

It was then when England realized there was one bed.

I… this is America. We've been together for decades now. Well- it's his alter ego but… I can't just sleep in the same bed as her… could I?

England flushed and stared at the bed, the sheets rumbled and twisted from his earlier activities with America.

I should sleep on the floor… but I'm a child. That should make it okay. Right? …But I'm still a man. In a child's body. I should sleep on the floor. It would be the right thing to do.

Lady Liberty carefully took her crown off and set it on the bedside table alongside Texas, which miraculously seemed to morph and changed size to fit both young America's face and Lady Liberty's face. Then she reached up and swept the green gown off her shoulders, leaving her in nothing but a white shift that barely concealed her breasts and left nothing else to the imagination.

She turned to England, who was currently standing very still, his evergreen eyes transfixed.

"Are you coming to bed, Artie?"

England stared at the beautiful girl, cursed his child body for the hundredth time that night and threw his gentlemanly-morals to the wind.

"C-coming."

England awoke the next morning to sunlight, warmth and something soft mashing into his face. Peeling his eyelids open, he found that sometime during the night, Liberty had wrapped her arms around him and clutched him to her chest as if he were some stuffed animal… not that England was complaining. A soft, contented sigh escaped and, feeling a rising tide of childish glee, took advantage of the current situation to admire the glorious soft flesh that was right in his face and barely covered by a white shift. Of course, England loved America's male-self, both his overly confident, intoxicating personality and his attractiveness… even if he was getting a tad soft around the belly… but England found that cute and endearing.

Not that he was going to admit that to America anytime soon.

A soft sigh escaped past Liberty's pink lips. England flushed, his round cheeks turning red as he, guiltily, refocused his gaze back to her chest. It was a commonly known fact among the former colonies England raised and took care of that he was rather fond of the female body, specifically the chest region. It was something England had tried to keep a secret from America, but to his amusement, found America held a similar fascination with them. Something about their roundness… and softness… England just couldn't get over it.

England let his face rest on one, using it as a pillow, and sighed. Once they got passed this mess, he would have to have a little… discussion… with America in regards to his female other-self.

Yawning, he slowly sat up and looked at the clock. The red digits glared back at him.

"Nine-o'clock… never slept in this late for years…" Smacking his lips, England placed his tiny, pudgy hand on Liberty, carefully avoiding her chest, and shook her gently. "Wake up… we have go to the airport…"

"Mmmmmm~" Liberty groaned and turned over. "Don't wanna….five more minutes…"

England rolled his eyes. It seemed that Liberty and America are almost carbon copies, as this is what happened with England on a daily basis. Trying to get America out of bed before ten-o'clock was a miraculous undertaking that often ended up in England dumping ice water on his face.

"Wake up now! The earlier we get to the air port the better!"

Liberty groaned, but slowly sat up, her hair slightly messy from sleeping on it. "Airport… Wouldn't it be better to take a ship from the east coast to your home?"

England paused for a moment, suddenly remembering the year she last remembered. "Well… technology has come a long way since 1922."

"You mean… you can fly across the Atlantic? A passenger plane?"

"Yes, it happens all the time now."

Liberty let out a surprised "oh" and slide from the bed, seeming excited at this new development. After the two got cleaned up and dressed, England and Liberty packed their belongings and headed down to the parking lot. Packing their gear into the car, England frowned, knowing he was too small to be able to drive.

"Liberty…do you know how to drive?"

"Why of course I do!" Liberty glared at him and looked offended. "I'm a free woman, and it's my right to drive."

England raised a brow at that. "Right… Well then do you think you can drive this car?"

He waved at the rented hybrid car sitting before them. Liberty looked it over with a roll of her eyes. "I can drive any car, Artie."

"Ah…" England hesitated for a moment, but felt it was imperative to ask this. "I'm curious… but… who taught you how to drive?"

"Moonshine runners!"

England stared at her and suddenly felt very afraid.

Liberty sat in the driver's seat of the car. She stared at all the knobs and buttons, running her fingers over them as if she were searching for something.

"Need any help?" England inquired as he climbed into the passenger seat. "Feel free to ask any questions."

"Well…" Liberty pursed her lips and frowned. "I can't find the ignition… you have keys right?"

"You don't need to use a key anymore. You just press that button to start the car."

Liberty gawked at him. "No way… I just press this button and…"

Liberty jabbed the button and the dashboard lit up. "Whoa! What is that thing!" She touched the monitor that was sunken into the dashboard, which was currently displaying all of her gauges. The screen suddenly changed to the radio station selection at her touching. "W-wha-?"

"It's like having a tele in your car, you know-" England suddenly realized she came from a time that was before television was invented. "Right, um… nevermind." He touched the screen to bring up the gauges. "This is your speedometer, the petrol-"

"I know, I know about that." Liberty waved at him. "Now where's the clutch-"

"This is an automatic transmission. There is no clutch." England felt himself growing more and more nervous by the second and pointed to the tiny knob sticking out of the dashboard. "This is where you shift to reverse, drive, or park."

"Park? Well we are parked."

"No, I mean park is the gear we're in now." England bit his lip and wondered if he should just call a taxi. "In park, the brakes are on, keeping the car from moving."

"Ohh so they have that now? Huh, before we'd just put it in reverse!" Liberty grabbed the knob to put the car in reverse when England grabbed her hand. "Well what is it now, ya wet blanket!"

"W-wet…" England decided to let that one go. "You have to put your seat belt on."

"Seat belt?"

"…That strap by your door." England pointed to it and felt something akin to terror bubbling in his gut. "You thread your left arm through it, bring it across your chest and put it here…"

England helped her and Liberty moved around slightly in her seat. "This is really uncomfortable… I don't wanna wear it."

"I believe it is against the law here to not wear a seat belt."

"Oh don't be such a pill, I've been on the lam before." With that said, Liberty tore the seat belt off.

England waited two seconds before sighing in annoyance. "Can you please keep the slang to a minimum? I could hardly understand a word-"

"Don't be so annoying, I've run from the cops before." Liberty repeated without the old fashioned slang. "Remember? I learned to drive from the moonshiners. I know what I'm doing."

"…Do you really?" England trembled, tore his seatbelt across him and jammed it into the lock. "I'm ready." …I'm not ready. I'm not bloody ready at all! If I manage to make it home in one piece, I'm going to clean my basement out and reorganize my potions and drink that bottle of scotch I've been saving since the 60s…

Liberty smiled and put the car into reverse, driving out of the spot smoothly, put it into drive and drove out of the parking lot. "Where do I go now?"

England pulled the map out of the front storage console and poured over it for a moment. "Right… I think we're here… so… if we take this beltway-" …It should read Orbital Motorway… damn American English…

"What's a beltway?"

"It's like a highway."

"…What's a highway?"

England lowered the map and stared at her. Liberty tried smiling back. "What?"

"…Nothing. Y-you'll find out soon enough… I suppose…"

England pulled the map back up and, after gaining some perspective, told Liberty to take a left. Liberty followed his directions exactly, slowly figuring out the current driving systems in place. Finally the two came to the turn that led to the beltway. England swallowed and explained the concept of speed limits to her.

"Speed limits?" Liberty scowled and gripped the wheel. "Well that's no fun."

"It's not about having fun! It's about not crashing-"

"Oh I won't crash. I'm a very skilled driver."

England resisted the urge to press his hands to his face. "That's not the point but… I guess that's… good?"

The light turned green and Liberty jammed her foot to the accelerator, taking the tight turn at a speed that left England smashed to the right side of the car, and quickly drove down the ramp to the three lanes of busy traffic. Liberty wove the high-tech hybrid car through traffic as smoothly as threading a needle, still accelerating.

"Would you slow down before you kill us both!?" England shouted at her, his little-boy voice cracking slightly. "Remember what I told you about the speed limits here??"

"Well you said we're in a hurry right? Well I'm hurrying!"

"We're going to be-"

The sudden blaring of sirens exploded behind them.

"Aw damn! I think I can out-run 'em-"

"Don't outrun them you bloody fool! Slow down and pull over!"

…I knew I should've called a taxi… what the hell was I thinking…?!

Liberty glared at him, but complied and pulled over onto the wide shoulder. The heat of the day was slowly making its presence, the distance line of gaudy casino's glittering in the distance. She rolled her window down and put the car into park, waiting for the cop to come to the window.

"I don't know why you're so worried." Liberty said with a scowl. "I'll have them call Nevada and he'll bail us out."

England groaned and cradled his face in his hands. I'm doomed to remain an eight year old for the rest of my life.

"Look, Liberty, we need a cover story. Your name is Alice Jones and I'm your kid-"

There were footsteps and a bulky man with black shades leaned down to eye Liberty and England.

"You know how fast you were going?"

"No, not really. I wasn't paying much attention."

"The speed limit says 65, but you were doing 90."

"Oh was I? Wow these little cars certainly pack some punch don't they!"

The cop stared at her, his mouth a thin line and completely un-amused. England sat in his seat, cringing and cursing his rotten luck.

"License and registration please."

Liberty shifted. "I'll be honest. I don't have a license."

"Can you step out of the vehicle?" Liberty paused a moment, shooting a look at England before opened the door and being motioned to stand over at the police cruiser.

England cursed and started digging through his pockets for America's cell phone he kept. America may not like it when he comes back, but right now he really needed some help. Help in the form of an adult who was with the times and had connections. Opening the phone, he scrolled down the huge list of contacts and finally came across the number he was looking for. Jabbing the send button, he held the phone to his ear, finally thankful for his short stature, as the cop couldn't see him, and listened to the dial tone.

After the fifth ring, a voice of a young man, possibly an older teenager, picked up.

"Someone had better be dying Dad because I just left a really important budget meeting-"

"W-wait! This is Nevada? Right??"

"…Yes. This is Nevada…" The voice suddenly turned hostile. "Who the hell is this and why are you using my Dad's cell phone?"

"Look, just let me explain before you start making assumptions." England got out in a single breath. "This is England. You may or may not know, but America invited me to the Consumer Electronics show. Earlier, America and I accidentally drank something that I thought was wine but turned out to be this potion that turned us into kids and I can't change us back without going back to my house. A lot of stuff happened, America turned into Lady Liberty, we tried driving to the airport but got pulled over by a cop-"

"Whoa, whoa, mom is out??" Nevada gasped. "Who the hell yanked on Nantucket?"

"It's… a really long story."

"Damnit, can't believe this crap…" There was an exhausted sigh. "Fine-fine… I'll make some calls and have the cop take you to the sheriff's office…"

England let out a sigh of relief for the first time in 12 hours. "Thank you."

"I'll have to go there and sign you out in person… ya know, a security thing…"

"Yes, of course. Thank you."

England hung up and stuffed the phone back into his pocket. Taking advanced precaution, he took some precious valuables and stuffed them into his pockets. Glancing in the rear-view mirror, he saw Liberty, who was in handcuffs, and the cop arguing about something when the cop cut off and answered his radio. Minutes passed before a look of surprise crossed his face and he motioned for Liberty to get into the backseat of the police cruiser, much to her annoyance. After dealing with her, the cop came to England's door, motioning for him to get out. England slide out of the car, noticing for the first time that adults seemed to lower their guard around him more often than when he was an adult, and climbed into the police cruiser beside Liberty.

"I told you to be careful." England glared at her. "But no, you never listen. You and America both. Honestly, don't know why I put up with you-"

"If you're so annoyed, then why do you put up with us?"

England opened his mouth, but found he couldn't quite answer her question without lying. Sighing, he chose to stare out the window and watch the lone, solitary cloud float across the sky before the sun slowly burned it away.

England felt like that cloud.

The two of them sat in hard plastic chairs in a plain lobby. Liberty held a colorful fashion magazine, ogling the new fashions with disdain. England plucked at a thread that was coming loose at the bottom of his shirt. Neither spoke to one another since they left the police cruiser. England sighed for the 6th time that morning and stared at an invisible point on the wall.

This will be a great trip, America had promised him. We'll see all the newest gadgets I've been telling you about! It'll be fun, I promise.

So far the entire trip had only been one huge annoyance. When they first arrived, America dragged him to the convention center only minutes after unpacking, where they spent the last two days of the electronics show walking around, reading pamphlets, meeting Japan and China and several other nations, walking through the endless booths and hallways filled with giant posters and wall-sized flat screens. England took it all in, enjoying the buzzing atmosphere and the general feeling of communion that seemed to flood the rooms, where everyone was interested in technology and development, rather than politics. It was a nice change for England, but… it wasn't what he was looking for in vacation. By the end of the second day he was utterly exhausted and only wanted to be left alone in silence, having been drug all over by America since dawn.

The double doors suddenly squeaked open, breaking England from his train of thought. A young man, looking to be no more than 16 years, strolled into the room. He was in professional dress, a blue button down and black pants, but the sleeves were rolled up, the tie loose, his brown hair was messy and looked slept in, and a cigarette hung from his mouth. His blue eyes focused on him, then moved to Liberty when he finally came to a stop before them.

So this is Nevada? He kind of… reminds me of Spain… England eyed him and felt a wave of amusement wash over him. He's worse than America at dressing professionally…

"…Hey mom."

Liberty looked up and after a second, smiled. "Nevada…?"

She stood up, throwing the fashion magazine away, went to the teenager and swept him into a hug. Nevada returned the hug with a nervous smile, extracting the cigarette from his mouth. England remained frozen in the chair, his small legs dangling, and tried to ignore the odd family reunion.

"Its… been a while- and your still smoking I see." Liberty frowned at him. "You know… that's really bad for you and-"

"Yeah, you and Dad both." Nevada deadpanned. "He says the same thing about my smoking and gambling and drinking- …look, Mom, I need to talk to England for a second. Why don't you go up to the nice secretary over there and get signed out?"

Liberty eyed him suspiciously, glancing to England for a second and then back to Nevada. "…Alright, if you insist…"

Once Liberty left for the front desk, Nevada headed over to England, who was glaring at some point in space, looking miserable and pouting all at once.

"Long day?"

"You have no idea." England deadpanned and turned his glare onto the state. "I just want to go home so I can clear this mess up."

"So you've never met Dad's other self?"

"No. He never told me anything about her."

England felt oddly upset at that and had no idea why.

The desert state glanced to Liberty once more before taking a seat beside England. "Since you probably already know about what era she comes from I'll skip that. Mom comes out whenever someone yanks on Nantucket too hard. She has… almost the same personality and strength as Dad but… she also has this power-"

"Power? Like a gift?" England suddenly thought of his other self, Britannia. "She doesn't grant wishes, does she?"

"No… more like she has this undying need to help people fulfill their dreams." Nevada brought the cigarette to his lips, taking a slow drag before exhaling. "She doesn't have magic… it's more like a… 6th sense I guess. All I know is she gets this look in her eyes and can't be bothered to do anything else until she feels she's helped someone fulfill their dream. Or so… that's what the other states say."

"Does she change back?" England liked Liberty, but he really, really wanted America back. He wanted to go home, grab his wand and spell book and turn everything back to normal. "Is there any way to have America come back?"

Nevada hesitated for a moment. "That's… well… we don't know."

England felt something drop to the pit of his stomach. "…What?"

"We know how Dad changes, but we don't know how to have him come back. See… according to the southern states, after Dad changed, Liberty got involved with some Moonshiner's and wanted to help them achieve their dreams. She stayed with them for five years. It wasn't until Virginia went to check up on her that she found Dad back to normal."

England gawked at the state openly. "…No. There has to be a way to make America come back. He can't just stay like this for-"

"You shouldn't have a problem though, seeing as how she's already attached herself to you."

"…I… what?"

"I could see it the moment I walked in. She wants to help you. Maybe… her helping you until you solve this problem will cause her to change back to Dad?" Nevada wondered out loud, taking another drag. "Sometimes I wish Dad's alter-ego didn't even-"

"Finished signing us out!" Liberty strolled across the room towards them, her green dress fluttering about her ankles. "Anything else we need to do before we go?"

England stared at Nevada with wide eyes. I wish… a wish… why didn't I realize this sooner?!

"If you two want a quick flight out of here, I could probably work my contacts and get you two some nice seats in first class to Washington D.C if you like?"

Liberty smiled. "That's great, right England? From there we could-"

"Thank you, but that won't be necessary!"

England slide from the chair and looked up at Liberty and Nevada.

"I just realized something."

"Realized what?" Nevada asked, eyeing England in slight suspicion.

England met Nevada's gaze and came to the realization that if he did anything to unintentionally hurt Lady Liberty, this state would not hesitate in gathering his other siblings to participate in a little dosage of vigilante justice.

"It's… well… I can't really say here."

The state didn't look convinced. "Its safe here."

"Really, I think-"

"Its safe here." And the state turned to look at the secretary, who quickly snatched her coffee up and scurried away. "Go on."

"Right…" England moved on, not wanting to dwell on what just happened. "I also have something similar to America, where I have this… other persona. The other difference is I can grant wishes."

It took two seconds before Liberty reacted. "Hey that's great! You can change and I could wish for you to take us to your home!"

Nevada didn't look convinced. "Wishes? It would happen… just like that?"

…Not believing in my magic skills… just like America…

"It's true. It would happen instantly."

Liberty smiled. "I believe you. Its okay Nevada, we'll get this taken care of. Go back to your meeting."

"But-… wait, how'd you know-?"

"Don't worry! Go back to your budget meeting, they need your input."

Nevada was rendered speechless and simply nodded. "Well… alright? You have my number. Call me if you need anything...?"

Liberty watched the teen leave, and turned back to England.

"So, what's the plan?"

Notes:

1. Moonshine runners were typically young men who delivered Moonshine during the prohibition years in the twenties. They used to upgrade their cars to "hot rods" so they could outrun the cops. D:

2. The reason for Nevada's bad-guy theme is because 1) Nevada is known for its high rate of people who smoke (this also goes hand in hand with gambling addiction and drinking and driving incidents) 2) Nevada's political history is deep with bad politics. There hass been many instances of voter fraud, black mail, sex scandals… (you name it, it's probably happened) and 3) Nevada has a rich history of dealing with the Italian mafia out of New York. Las Vegas and Reno were used to help raise money for the organization in New York. The mob was mostly kicked out in the 60s and 70s… or were they?