Typical disclaimers apply.
[Camera reel is loaded.]
WARREN: It's these microphones, Jesus–
You just have to clip that part there.
WARREN: You know what you should get? AKGs. Best microphones in the world.
GRAHAM: I'm more partial to an SM57.
DAISY: I've been singing into Sennheisers since I was touring with the Six. Sorry, are you set up, Jules? What did you want to cover?
[Cut to title.]
"YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE"
Or: A Revised and Updated Oral History of Daisy Jones and Billy Dunne
BILLY: There was a day, I remember–'83, '84, could've been. You were… you were little.
Dad, please tell me you remember my birth year.
Of course. Of course. What was I saying?
There was a day in the early eighties…
Right, right. There was this day… it was a school day. A work day. Your mom had been on this assignment, local, and so I was taking care of everything. And I mean everything. Driving you to school, coming home to a broken pipe fixture in the basement, calling the plumber, driving back to school because you'd forgotten your sketchbook for an art assignment, coming back to the plumber, having to call a second plumber, hurrying back to school to take you to soccer practice… Your mom got home late, she was exhausted. You were exhausted. I was definitely exhausted.
But we were happy. Exhausted and happy.
You and your mom had gone to bed. I was doing the dishes, listening to the radio–and she came on.
She was everywhere that year. Yeah, that was a great album. It was that single–Love You Like You Aren't.
Actually, that was my least favorite song on the album. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't bad. It introduced the 808 to her sound, right after Planet Rock, before the Talking Heads got a hold of it. It moved her forward, you could understand why it was a hit. But I was sitting there listening to it, and I wasn't thinking about the way Daisy and I fell apart, about Chicago, or everything before…
I was thinking, man, this song could use a better verse. That minor third at the end–if you'd inverted it, thrown in that accidental, and switched up the melody–it would've sounded unexpected, but it fit the tone. I had it in my head.
I listened to the whole song, turned off the radio, and that was it. No… pining, Jesus. No being stuck in the past. Except for thinking of writing with Daisy, arguing over it, the–the joy of it. How lucky I'd been to have that life, even for only a moment.
Now I had a different life, and I was happy. God, I was happy. And just wondering to myself… how did I get so lucky to have that life and this one, too? How many guys get to live twice?
See? [laughs] I remember stuff, after all.
DAISY: I knew he'd say some crap like that. Billy never heard a song he didn't think he could fix by getting his hands on it.
He was right most of the time, sure. So what?
It's funny, it makes me think. There was this time–I was in the studio, recording the album that was supposed to be the one that followed Tell Me the Worst of It. Those sessions were a disaster… don't make me relive it, ask Warren if you want.
Anyway, we were in some studio I'd never been in, out in Florida, of all places. The engineer was demoing the setup for us, and started playing something they'd recorded recently. I'd never heard the song, but I knew it immediately.
And I'm listening to this pop song about a woman, and the rain, and then I hear…
She's the storm…
I cracked a rib laughing. The only good thing that came out of those sessions. It was a good tune, too. It killed me at first that he'd sold off the song and never even rewritten the hook, then I played it back that night when my own recording had crapped out. And listening again, I was pretty sure that was the only part of the song he hadn't changed.
It's a beautiful image, after all. It was just the rest of the song that was shit.
It never went anywhere on the charts. Barry Manilow, you know, and right before he went back in vogue after the Copacabana movie. I don't think Barry was the right singer for it. With the new verses… I could've done it justice, I think. Maybe I will, one day.
Sorry, can you remind me–what exactly did your dad say he'd change about Love You Like You Aren't? Just wondering.
WARREN: Yeah, I ended up drumming on one of Billy's songs in '81. I coulda told you from the opening riff. That was a Dunne Brothers special.
It was a banger, man, a real banger. It actually got picked up by Sam Browne, when he'd gone back to pop after his post-Motown funk phase.
Honestly, Billy ain't wrong about Love You Like You Aren't. He is wrong about the worst part of that song.
The worst part of that song was programming the fuckin' drum machine. God damn. I couldn't do it. They had to bring in some Caltech machine music guru. I thought that sucker was gonna put me out of a job.
Turns out you can't replace a real drummer. Though Daisy did get me on an electric set for that album. Not bad. That robot snare can give a helluva punch. I spent most of the late '80s chasin' after Max Weinberg's sound on Springsteen's records.
Wait, what was your question?
BILLY: Did I ever miss it? Of course. It's like I learned in rehab, both times. You always miss it.
But me being home, it opened things up for your mom. Her career took off and–it was different than being onstage a hundred nights a year, but it was something good. I liked being proud of her.
I'm still proud of her.
DAISY: He's been talking about her more, recently.
I've been telling him he needs to do that.
I'm glad. It's been… good. I want him to know–I've been telling him–I know he still loves her. I want that for him. That's something he never has to give up.
I think he gets that.
I hope so.
BILLY: It was hard for me to understand that your mother could see all of me. Could love all of me. It took me a while to get that through my head.
Eventually it got through, though. That Camila could love me for who I was and who I wasn't. That she could love me despite all I put her through with my addiction, with that first tour… Despite the fact that this other person had blown into my life, and suddenly there was this… gravity pulling us together.
Camila told me once she thought about other paths for us. Every once in a while, when things were bad for us, she'd meet some charming man and think: maybe this could've been me.
Or she'd think: maybe I should've let him go. Maybe I should've let him and Daisy Jones crash into each other and figure it out. Maybe it would've worked.
There were those different instances of us, she said, and that was okay. We lived on this earth, in this time, and all that mattered was whether we continued to choose each other.
I'm not proud of much, but I am proud of this: that we made that choice, every day, from the night I left the Six to the morning your mother died.
I wonder sometimes. If I should still be choosing her.
She made that choice for you, Dad.
I know. That doubt's always going to be there, because I can't call her up and ask her what she'd want from me. But the same way she gave her trust to me, I've gotta trust she wanted the best for me, like I know she wanted it for you.
I think you're right, Dad.
I do, too.
GRAHAM: He was.. weird about it in the beginning.
WARREN: My man was acting like a nine-year-old boy with a crush. Trust me, I've got two of 'em.
BILLY: It started out innocently enough. I mean, we're in our forties. I don't know what you'd expect.
DAISY: It was charged. Same as it ever was. You could've blindfolded me and I still would've known Billy Dunne had shown up on my doorstep, just from the static.
I'm trying to imagine what he could've said?
He didn't tell you? I can't remember exactly, but it was something like–
"I think I recognize you from somewhere."
"Yeah? Same. You look like someone who used to be famous."
"Borderline."
A long smile.
"I wasn't sure I'd see your face again."
"Well. Here it is."
"You don't look a day past your first Grammy."
"You don't look so washed up, yourself."
So it goes to: now what?
"Would you like a cup of coffee?"
"I thought you'd never ask."
DAISY: What did he tell you about it?
Just that he'd gone and seen you. That it went well.
That's it?
I asked him if he was going to see you again. He just kind of smiled.
The man hates indirect language but won't give a straight answer. He didn't stay over long, the first time. We just had coffee in my backyard.
What did you talk about?
The past, some. The present, more. Camila, a little. Music, plenty.
We decided to get lunch the next week. Did you hear he got cold feet? Almost stood me up?
GRAHAM: You can understand it. I think, in his head… going over, saying hi–that was one thing. He was just doing what Camila wanted.
But seeing her again, that… you know how your dad is. He started thinking, what does this mean, what would Camila think about Daisy Jones being back in my life.
So he called me, thirty minutes before he was supposed to meet her. I listened to him for five, ten minutes. Then I told him: look, you've had more than your fair share of second chances. You want to blow this one right now?
DAISY: We sat down to lunch and he immediately goes, "Should we get out of here?" I'm looking at him like, What is up with you, man? And he says, "I'm not hungry."
So I ask him what he wants to do, and he says, "Well, if I've got an hour of Daisy Jones's time, I'd really like to hear her sing."
BILLY: I just realized, some of the best times of my life were spent singing songs with this woman. It's been twenty years, I don't want to go a minute longer if I don't have to.
DAISY: He had his guitar in his Jeep. We sat down on a bench in the park and played for an hour, maybe more.
Not any of our old stuff together. He must've played ten of my solo songs from memory. I remember teasing him, "I can't believe you were such a fan."
And he said, "Always. And so was Camila."
Then he said, "We still owe her a song."
The next couple times we met, it was all about the music. He'd call and say, "Hey, I've got a good little something going–you want to hear it?" And I'd say sure, because I did. But really because I wanted to see him again.
BILLY: After twenty years, there's so much to unpack. The music part, with her… that was always easy.
GRAHAM: He said what?
WARREN: "Easy" is not how I'd describe 1975.
DAISY: He's one of the most difficult songwriters I've ever met.
BILLY: Fine, not easy… but natural.
When did things move on from being just about the music?
BILLY: Jules, I don't know about…
Come on, Dad, we're going to play this at the reception. You have to say something about your actual relationship.
BILLY: …What did Daisy say?
DAISY: He kept me waiting for months. I was fine with that at first. I figured, let's figure out who we are now, then we can figure out who we might be to each other. We had so much relearning to do.
We'd been at Warren's for dinner, his kids had been there. Billy had driven me, even though he was the opposite direction. I had to be home early, since the babysitter was only there til eight.
We're sitting in his car in my driveway, and I'm about to get out. I ask him, "Aren't you gonna walk me to the door?"
He says, "I don't want to intrude."
BILLY: At that point I hadn't met Fiona. I wasn't sure if it was right, in the circumstances…
DAISY: I told him, "You don't need to be scared of my daughter."
"I'm not scared."
"So come in. Say hi. Introduce yourself."
"Do you think that's a good idea?"
"It'll last two minutes. It's past her bedtime anyway, I have to put her down as soon as I'm in there."
"If you think we're ready."
"What does that mean?"
"I'm only saying, I know introducing people can be–"
"I introduce friends to her all the time."
"You introduce men to her?"
"Friends, sure."
"I was saying–"
"Billy, the only reason I'd hesitate to introduce you to my daughter is if I'd be introducing someone who was more than a friend. So far you haven't given me much of a read on that."
"I get that. And I think…"
"Yeah?"
"Daisy."
"Yeah?"
"I don't think I can just be your friend. Is that okay?"
"That depends. Are you walking out of my life again?"
"Not unless you ask me to."
"The only thing I'm asking you to do is come inside and meet my daughter."
"Even if I'm not just a friend?"
"I get the feeling you're not going anywhere."
"I get the feeling you're right."
Fifteen minutes later, after the babysitter's departure and the bedtime routine, in the kitchen:
"It's getting late."
"It's getting dark, too."
"Probably not safe for driving."
"Definitely not."
"Maybe I'll stay."
"I want you to."
"Then I'll stay."
SIMONE: I knew it was serious when she brought him to New York.
I wasn't sure how I felt about it, at first. You don't mind me saying that?
I don't mind!
Hell, I would've said it anyway. But that's good, honey, that we're on the same page.
I saw him and first thought that crossed my mind was, "That sunnuvabitch hasn't aged a day." Course, he always looked a little older than he was. Maybe his age was just catching up to the rest of him.
Second thought through my head was, "I've seen Daisy through too much pain for this."
What changed your mind?
Who says I changed my mind?
…
I'm joking, sweetheart, I'm joking.
I'll say it wasn't one thing. First it was simply seeing them together, and him with Fiona. He's good with kids. You know that, obviously. But that little girl adored him already.
And then… I don't know how to put it. You get to our age, you see someone for the first time in that many years–some girl you knew from your block, that kid from Sunday school–and you recognize them, but you also see some of the years in 'em, you know?
I guess I saw in Billy those same years I'd witnessed firsthand for Daisy. Getting older. Getting healthier.
I'm not saying I gave it to him easy. Fact is, I gave him hell for a while. But he kept coming back. That's the thing about Billy, isn't it? He's a pain in the ass but he doesn't quit on you. Even when you want him to, right?
[Laughs]
Daisy could use a little of that.
KAREN: I hadn't seen Billy in, Christ. Ten years? Teddy's funeral?
DAISY: I would have seen you and your parents at Teddy's funeral except my appendix burst.
Maybe my body was trying to tell me something. Maybe it wasn't the right time.
KAREN: Billy did write a couple songs for my '87 album. Good tunes, too. Daisy and I had been running into each other more frequently, but it'd been a year or two since I'd been to America, and she hadn't toured Europe in years.
BILLY: Of course I was going along for the tour. The only time I'd ever been to Europe was for your high school graduation trip.
Wait, that was your first time in Europe?
We weren't making many intercontinental trips from our part of steel town.
And the band…
Never made it outside the US. Unless you count that festival in Hawai'i, which… well, that doesn't count.
DAISY: He was helpless. I had to help him with the currency, when to tip, when not to.
It was kinda fun, honestly.
KAREN: So Daisy and Billy are coming through Berlin, she had maybe ten dates in Europe–this is last summer–and I get the bright idea of inviting them to stay with me. Obviously they've got a hotel suite, there's no reason they should have said yes.
DAISY: Are you kidding? I thought it'd be fun, like a sleepover. Or being back on tour together again.
BILLY: Karen's a lot more of a…
DAISY: Neat freak.
BILLY: …than I remember.
KAREN: I spent the whole time worrying I hadn't cleaned the downstairs bathroom, it was a disaster.
But it was good, in a way. Hosting them, having them in my apartment–it was weird, sure, but also… not? I remember coming in the kitchen the next morning and they were already there, drinking coffee, laughing over some joke I couldn't decipher. For a second I was right there back in Sound City, walking into the studio with the rest of the band while they were already there, caught up in their inside jokes.
I appreciated the invite, by the way. I wasn't sure about coming. Your aunt… really lovely woman. She reached out. Said she hoped I'd make it, that she'd like the chance to meet me for herself.
Tell her I appreciated that, will you?
You can tell her yourself next month.
Right-o. I guess I can.
BILLY: It was… different, being back on tour like that. As the…
The SO?
As a guest, yeah. Backstage pass. I enjoyed it like crazy, though. I'm not sure I've go the taste for Europe yet, but Daisy… she's a good tour guide. Honestly I wish the tour'd been twice as long. I love watching her perform.
European crowds are different, too. There's… well, there's more bottle throwing. That was weird. But the energy's a little different. I don't know, I think it'd have been fun if the Six had ever made it out there.
I guess that's one for the bucket list that'll have to go unchecked.
DAISY: We'll see about that.
DAISY: This is playing at the reception?
Maybe. I'm starting to think it'll be too long. Maybe I'll show clips and save the full one for you two.
I'm not sure how I feel about my face being on screen at my own to-do, but…
Think of it as a toast.
From myself.
From me, from you.
Okay, you know what? I trust you, it'll be lovely. Could you do one thing for me though?
Of course.
I don't want people thinking… I don't want you or your dad or anyone feeling like they can't talk about your mom. So if it's in these clips, and someone's talking about her… Please don't feel like you have to cut it out. I'd like to hear it.
I'd like it to feel like she's there, somehow.
I think she will be.
You know, I'm still not sure what I believe. Up, down, heaven, hell. Being with your dad… it's like I'm stepping into a life I could've had, in some ways. But also like I'm stepping into hers.
I'm gonna sound wackadoo. But I talk to her every now and then.
I do too. What do you talk about?
"I still feel you here, sometimes."
…
"I kind of feel like an intruder, you know? Like I'm living your life."
…
"I'm gonna take care of him. Maybe not like you did. I'm just gonna do this the best way I know how."
…
"Yeah. I think so, too."
WARREN: So you want us to, like, say some stuff? A message for the happy couple or something?
GRAHAM: A little weird saying it into a camera. But, I guess–I'd ask everyone to raise their glasses.
WARREN: To Daisy and Billy.
KAREN: To two of the biggest egos I've ever worked with. And the best frontmen, too.
GRAHAM: To my big brother, a man who's never learned how to let life knock him down for too long. I love ya, Billy.
SIMONE: To Daisy Jones. You sentimental bitch.
[Candid footage, three days before the reception.]
BILLY: You've got the certificate?
DAISY: The certificate?
BILLY: Daisy, seriously…
DAISY: I'm joshing you, old man. Swung by and picked it up yesterday. Jules has it ready to go. What's with the guitar? You messing around with something?
BILLY: Just a little bit.
DAISY: Gonna play it for me?
BILLY: Of course. Stuck on one part. I think the last chord doesn't work, you can tell me what you think.
DAISY: If you're asking me, you already know the answer.
BILLY: Rest of it isn't bad. Think it's just this one part.
DAISY: So play it, cowboy, and let's make it good.
[Camera reel ends, as the next story begins.]