OoO( 24 )OoO

In the Arena, the Untouchables went around cleaning up the corpses of the fallen monsters and humans. One of them walked forward pulling a wagon behind him. He stopped when he reached one of the bodies. Halting the small wooden cart, he reached down and grabbed the body. But, as soon as his hand touched it, the figure jumped up and swung a shining blade. The man didn't even have time to scream before he fell over dead.

The dark figure stood there, his breathing very labored. Reaching behind him, he grabbed the golden handle of his swords and slowly and painfully pulled them out of his back. Yelling, he gave one final tug before the swords freed themselves from his body. Standing, with blood dripping down his back and out his mouth, he glared at the ground. "I...will have...my revenge...Lyle the Sabre!" he yelled.

OoOoO

All of Albion was shook by Whisper's death. Among the females, she was an idol. Among the males, she was something to compare their women to. But, among all of Albion, she was a great hero, and an even better friend.

Lyle lie in his bed at the guild for nearly two weeks, sobbing and thrashing anything within his reach. Nobody could go into his room without getting verbal whiplash and something thrown at them. So they decided to leave him be, and let him cry himself out.

On the thirteenth day after Whisper's death, Lyle woke up and felt as if he could cry no more. He rose from the bed and put his guild clothes on slowly, as if weights were tied to his arms. Then, he trudged out of the room and down the stairs to the mess hall. He was instantly surprised by the greeting he got. Everybody in the guild was standing in the mess hall, and as soon as they saw him, the building errupted with cheers. He stood staring at everyone as they smiled and shouted greetings.

"W-What is this?" he asked confusedly.

Van smiled at him from the crowd. "Your fans Lyle. You are now the most famous hero in all of Albion." he said.

"How?"

Talon walked forward now and grinned. "Nobody has ever defeated all the Arena challenges before, even with a partner. They had to keep taking out the trolls because nobody could beat them. But you did, and now that you have defeated all of Albion's greatest, you are the greatest." she said.

Lyle looked at her for a second, then stared at all the faces in the audience. Then, he recognized one face, and it didn't look happy. Thunder was at the very back of the crowd with a viscious scowl on his face. Lyle walked forward and the crowd parted. He made his way towards Thunder and finally stopped in front of the giant man. Looking up into his face, Lyle said, "You got something to say?"

Thunder uncrossed his arms. "Yeah, as a matta of fact, I do."

"Then say it."

Reaching up, Thunder pointed an accusing finger at Lyle. "You. It was your fault my sister died. It was your fault Whisper was killed!" he yelled.

Everybody was taken aback, because he was apparently the only one who thought this. "Excuse me?" said Lyle. "Did you just say it was my fault?" he asked.

"Yeah, I did. If you weren't gloating around the Arena like some boy with a new toy, then maybe you could have stopped Jack from killing her!"

Lyle rubbed his temple annoyedly. "Let me ask you something Thunder. What did you do when you first won the Arena?" he asked.

Thunder hesitated a moment before yelling, "What I did when I won has nothing to do with this! Now let me ask you something..." he said, obvious to everyone that he was avoiding the question. "Why did you not use any spells to heal her after she was attacked?" he asked.

"Because, she was dead when I got to her! Not to mention the fact that even if she was alive, I wouldn't have enough Will energy in my entire body to heal a wound that bad, especially after fighting her and using it all!" Lyle shouted back.

"That's no excuse!" shouted Thunder.

"That's enough!" shouted a deep voice from the doorway. Everybody turned and saw Maze standing in the guild door, holding something in his hand. Stepping forward, the older mage walked down the small flight of steps and entered the mess hall. "What is this about?" he asked.

Thunder pointed at Lyle again. "He got my sister killed with his stupid ego!"

Lyle looked at Maze darkly. "You see? He has this stupid thought in his head that its my fault that Whisper died."

Maze looked at Thunder. "You know good and well that there was nothing Lyle could have done to save her. And you also know that if there was something he could have done, he would have."

"Maybe he would have. But if the arrogant little welp wouldn't have wasted that potion on that bandit, maybe it could have saved her!" he shouted.

Lyle turned to Maze and said, "Look, I have too much to deal with right now. I don't need some has-been blaming me for his sisters death because he couldn't do anything either. I'm leaving." he said and turned around. As soon as he started walking away, his body stopped working and began to spasm as energy flowed through it like a river. Suddenly, he blacked out with the sound of yelling in his ear.

OoOoO

Darkness. All he could see was darkness. He felt as if gravity had stopped working and he lay floating in the endless abyss of his own consciousness. Finally, after two days, he opened his eyes slightly. The room was barely lit, as shown by the dancing shadows across the ceiling like some twisted puppet show. In the corner, a small flame licked the air and let off a crescendo of light into the dark room.

His back burned severely. He didn't know why, but for some reason it felt as if a red iron were pressed against it, eating the skin away from his spine. Lifting his arm slowly, he felt his chest and noticed that his entire torso was heavily bandaged.

Suddenly, the door at the far end of the room opened and a person walked in. He couldn't see anything, his vision still blurred and unable to recognize anything. The figure walked over to him slowly and stood next to his bed. Try as he might, he couldn't see who...or what for that matter it was.

Then, the figure reached down and stroked his cheek. He blinked several times to clear his eye sight, but it didn't do any good. The figure spoke, "I love you Lyle, don't die on me." she said in a whispered tone. Reaching over, she planted a kiss on his forehead, and turned around and left.

He didn't know what happened, but he was too tired to care. He leaned his head back and relaxed on the bed, then fell immediately asleep, promising himself that he would find out who this mysterious person was.

OoOoO

It took Lyle a while, but he recovered rather quickly. In only a week did his burn heal and his mobility return. And now that he was walking again, he was going to find out what had happened that day in the mess hall. He approached the Guildmaster, who was watching as a new female apprentice was practicing with Van in the Will Training area.

The Guildmaster heard Lyle approach, then turned and saw the warrior. Smiling, he said, "Ah Lyle, I see you are feeling better today." he said.

Lyle nodded. "I have a question." The Guildmaster nodded and Lyle continued, "What the hell hit me that day that could do that much damage to me?" he asked.

The Guildmaster sighed and shook his head. "Come, walk with me for a moment." he said. Together they walked away from the training site and across the grassy knoll of the guild grounds. "That day Lyle, was a sad day indeed. As you know first hand, Thunder convinced himself that it was your fault Whisper died." he said. Lyle nodded as he kept pace with the aging man. "Well, after you called him a has-been and remarked about his sister, he lost control. Thunder is a great warrior Lyle, in many arts. But the one thing that made him who he was is his ability to control strands of lightning."

Lyle stopped and stared ahead. "He can control lightning?" he asked.

The Guildmaster nodded. "Yes. It has been his trademark for many years and he has used it to his advantage many times. That day though, when you turned your back on him, he hit you with a direct attack of lightning. At Thunder's skill level, its a miracle you are still alive."

"He shot me in the back? What kind of coward...?" he said, but was cut off.

"Now, Thunder has been exiled from the guild. He has lost his hero priviledges, such as teleportation and free access into any town. And he was stripped of his title as an Arena Champion. Lyle, because he attacked you, he lost everything." said the Guildmaster as he came to a stop at a pond.

Lyle walked up and stood next to him. "So, what happened to him?" he asked.

"We aren't too sure. Some say he has started a group of assassins to track you down and kill you, others say he took his own life. But only one other person really knows." he said. Lyle stared at him for a moment before the man spoke again. "The one he is in love with."

Lyle looked back out across the shimmering pond before responding. "Lady Grey..."

"Precisely, and that is why you need to talk to her." said the Guildmaster.

"Why me?" asked Lyle surprisedly, even though he already knew the answer.

"Because, you are the one she is surely going to marry Lyle. Ever since your performance at the Arena, she has shown up every day wanting to see you."

"She has?" he asked. Then, the memory of the woman came back to him. "Oh, I meant to ask you something..."

"Go ahead." said the man patiently.

"Did you allow people into my room while I was injured?" asked Lyle.

The Guildmaster looked at him oddly. "Of course not! Nobody was allowed to even come near your room while you were decomissioned...Why?" he asked.

Lyle shook his head. "No reason. Just thought I'd ask." he said. Then, he quickly changed the subject. "So, where is Lady Grey now?"

The Guildmaster snorted amusedly. "While you were in the infirmary, we allowed her to stay in your room so she wouldn't have to keep travelling back and forth every day." he said.

"What was so funny?" he asked curiously.

The Guildmaster smiled and shook his head. "Go and find out for yourself." he said.

OoOoO

"Unbelievable! What did you do to my room?" shouted Lyle as he stared around. Lady Grey smiled.

"Do you like it?" she asked mischieviously. Lyle stared around speechless. His room, normally quaint with a bed, table and chairs, and book shelf...had been desicrated. Everywhere was an explosion of pink and normal white sheets and black bedcover was replaced with a large overstuffed comforter and too many purple pillows to count, along with a four poster canopy covering it. The windows were now covered with bright pink drapes and the entire room was decorated with shining jewelry and fancy ornaments only worthy of Lady Grey.

Lyle walked over and stared at the bed for a moment, then placed both hands on it, as if believing it to be a mirage.

"Sleeping in a place like that, no wonder you were always looking cranky. So I took it upon myself to fix up your room a little." she said.

Lyle turned and stared at her, his arm aching to reach for his sword which, now hung over the fireplace like a trophy.

OoOoO

Lyle had rearmored and left the guild later that day with Lady Grey in her carriage back to Bowerstone. He stared out the window at the merchants and travellers pointing at the cart and sighed. If he did marry Lady Grey, he was going to get a lot more attention than he wanted. And not just by the townsfolk and citizens of Albion, but by people who wanted both of them dead as well.

The carriage pulled up to the front gate of Bowerstone, which creaked open and allowed the sleigh inside the city. Soon, the entire thing came to a halt and the coachman jumped down and opened the door for them. Lady Grey stepped out into the sunlight, followed by Lyle who still had a look of loathing after his room was remodeled.

Together they ascended the steps to the northern part of Bowerstone, which was off limits to anybody of poverty. As he walked up the stairs, the giant doors opened and his eyes grew wide. Every building on the other side of the doors was at least the size of the guild itself. The streets were set with pure white stone and the shops stacked one on top of the other with each floor selling different products. The inn was especially fancy, for it was made of granite stone and the floors of marble. Outside the door hung a sign that read, "The Bowerstone Pearl". Lyle wondered if he would ever be staying inside a place like that. Not likely, he preferred something a little more cozy to something extravegant.

As she led him by the hand towards a fork in the road, he couldn't help but notice that everybody around wore extravegant clothes and shiny jewelry. He knew he wasn't going to like it here. Soon, she led him towards a fountain that sprayed water high into the air, causing a rainbow of colors to shimmer across the crests. As they walked past the monument, Lyle couldn't help but stare at its beauty. Then, he noticed that Lady Grey had stopped. Turning, he saw her standing in front of a mansion.

"This is my humble home. The Grey Mansion." she said. Lyle looked up and saw as two stone stair cases led up to the same door. The door stood almost taller than twice his size, and could fit her carriage comfortably through it. "This is where you will be staying...if you manage to finish my tasks." she said.

Lyle's attention quickly went from the house to the lady. "Huh? What tasks?" he asked.

She smiled coyly. "Silly boy, I told you. I'm not going to pick you just because you won the Arena challenges. There are a few trials you have to go through before you can win my affection." she said.

Lyle sighed. "I really don't have time..."

She glared at him. "Then leave. I will pick someone else as my husband." she said crossing her arms. Lyle stared at her for a moment before closing his eyes.

"Alright, what are they?" he asked.

"Much better. Now then, first you must go throughout Bowerstone in search of my favorite present." she said.

"And what would that be?" he asked.

"Well, if I told you, it wouldn't be a challenge would it?" she asked. Lyle shook his head and Lady Grey continued. "Oh, and there will be no help from your friends. If I hear that you have been getting extra help with your tasks, then you will be disqualified. Understood?" she asked.

"Yeah. So, your favorite gift huh?" he asked as he looked around.

She nodded. "You have until sundown to find it. Now go on, you don't have much time left." she said, then walked towards her mansion.

Lyle stood and watched her walk into her mansion. When she had closed the doors behind her, he sighed and said, "Great, how am I supposed to figure this out?" he asked.

Ten feet away, a guard walked up behind Lyle and smiled. "Hmmm...lovely day isn't it?" he asked.

Lyle turned and smiled slightly. "Yeah, but some things can make even a day like this seem grey...if you know what I mean." he said. The guard stared at him a moment, then laughed.

"Aye, that I do." he said as he shook with mirth. "So, you are Lyle the Sabre huh?" asked the guard.

"Yeah...unfortunately." he said.

"Well, just so you know, I bet on you during the Arena. Made big money from your persistence ya know."

"Congratulations." said Lyle, who was less enthusiastic than the guard.

The guard nodded, then looked up at the doorway to Lady Grey's mansion. "So, I heard that you were looking for Lady Grey's favorite gift. Any clue as to what it is?" he asked.

Lyle shook his head. "No, and I only have until sundown to find it or else she cans me."

"That's a beautiful decoration don't you think?" asked the guard. Lyle turned and looked at the door as well. The frame of the door was stout wood, but carved into the keystone at the top was two roses that intertwined. The curious thing about them was that they were both painted black.

"I suppose, but what does that have to do with her..." he said, then caught himself in mid-sentence. "Black roses..." he said with a small smile. He turned to the guard.

"Now where would you get an idea like that?" asked the man.

"Not from our friendly neighberhood guards if thats what you are asking." said Lyle.

The guard smiled. "Good head on ya boy." he said.

"How about a drink on me?" asked the warrior. The guard smiled widely.

"Now there's an offer I can't refuse. But what about Lady Grey?" he asked.

"I have til sundown, so how about taking a break?" asked Lyle.

The guard smiled. "You are the best hero from that guild, I can tell ya that." he said happily.

OoOoO

Lyle stood in Lady Grey's dining room as she stared at him oddly. Looking him up and down, she said, "Well, did you get it?" Lyle walked forward and placed on the table an entire bouqet of black roses. Lady Grey's eyes widened as the flowers were placed in front of her. "H-How did you find out?" she asked.

Lyle smiled. "You ask that as if you wanted me to fail." he said. Lady Grey looked at him with a glare that told him she wasn't satisfied with his answer. He sighed. "You have them carved all over your mansion, it was kind of hard not to notice." he said.

She smirked at him. "Very good. You seem to be quite the slueth." she said.

"So, do I get some kind of reward for finding them?" he asked curiously.

She stood and walked over to him wearing the seductive smile she had become famous for. "All in due time dear. Before you get dessert, you must achieve my other two trials." she said.

"And those would be?" he asked irritatedly.

She turned away as if saddened. "Before I came to be the mayor of Bowerstone, my father was the leader of this fine city. With him he carried a family heirloom that was passed on to me when he died. But recently, my most treasured possession was stolen. You, my dear Sabre, must get it back for me." she said.

"You're kidding me..." he said.

"I'm afraid not." she said.

Lyle sighed and stared at her. "That heirloom could be anywhere by now. Hell, it could be halfway to Ambervale by the time I get any clue about where it is." he said.

She smiled. "Luckily for you, it was stolen only a few days ago. And the next ship that leaves Albion is leaving in two days. So, until that ship leaves, it is still in Albion." she said.

"Well, that helps. So, any idea about who stole it?" he asked.

"Lyle, you have to understand. I have many enemies. Many people who would want nothing less than to dethrone me and make me their servant." she said with her back still turned.

"Oh, I understand perfectly..." he said quietly.

Lady Grey turned and looked at him. "Pardon?" she asked.

Smiling nonchalantly, he shrugged. "Nothing. So, I'm going off my instincts again huh?" he asked.

She nodded. "Better be off, that only gives you two days to find my necklace." she said. "And the same rules apply, no help from your friends, or you get booted."

He nodded with a smile.

OoOoO

Twilight had set in around Albion as Lyle made his way across the campground of Twinblade's former headquarters. Talon followed quickly behind him, looking back and forth as bandits stared at them and scooted away, as if they were going to be attacked for straggling. Both Lyle and Talon stopped in front of the encampment and stared across the grounds.

"So, what exactly is it your looking for?" asked Talon as she noticed the bandits drawing in closer to their fires like it was going to protect them.

"A suspect. Somebody stole something and I need it back." he said. Then, he raised his voice. "Listen all of you! I am not here to kill you all and finish my former job! But, I am here for a reason. I am looking for a thief, one that stole a very important piece of jewelry from the Grey Mansion! Anybody who knows the whereabouts of this thief, step forward now. You will not be harmed." he said. The bandits in the camp looked back and forth at each other. "You will be greatly rewarded for any information given." he added. Suddenly, three quarters of the camp stood up and stepped forward to offer their knowledge.

Talon smirked. "Heh, leave it to a bandit."

Lyle glared across the crowd. "I'll take care of this." he said. "But, any false information that I gain will get the teller immediately executed. And don't think that I won't hunt down every last one of you." he shouted. The entire camp ran back to their places and sat down. Lyle's eye twitched in anger. "You have got to be kidding..." he said. Suddenly, he was alerted by a jerk on his White Balverine skin cloak, a get well gift from the entire town of Knothole Glade. He looked over and saw a bandit woman staring at the ground timidly. "You have some information?" he asked.

She nodded nervously. "I...I think I may know who took it..."

Lyle smiled and said, "Good, follow me."

The bandit woman followed Lyle and Talon into the tent formerly occupied by the late King of Bandits. Lyle sat down across the table after pulling a chair out for both Talon and the bandit. The bandit stared across the table at Lyle as if scared by his gaze.

After waiting a few moments, the warrior shouted, "Any bandit sneaking around outside this tent and eavesdropping will be hung by their own entrails!" There was an immediate response as the entire camp dashed away from the tent where they had previously been listening in. "Talon, will you check the grounds?" he asked. She nodded and left the tent. Then, the warriors gaze dropped and he stared at the woman sitting across from him. "So, you know who took the jewelry?" he asked. She nodded. "And you know the penalty if I find out you are lying. Don't think that because you are a woman, you will be spared." he said. She nodded again. "Good, continue."

She continued to stare at the table as she related her story. "W-Well, I was in Oakvale recently when I heard a merchant talking to someone. He said that he had hit the jackpot by stealing something from Bowerstone. Normally, the only things to steal in Bowerstone are the things from the shops around the city, and wouldn't be worth as much as he made it sound. So I figured he must have gotten into the northern part of the city and taken something." she said.

Lyle sat up straight. "Did he say what it was that he stole?" he asked wearing an excited expression.

"H-He mentioned something about a necklace..." she said.

Standing up, Lyle said, "Good. Do you remember where you last saw this man?" he asked.

"He was sitting at the inn when I over heard him." she said.

"Hehe, I found you." said Lyle as he walked towards the entrance to the tent. "Oh," he started as he halted. "and remember, if I find out this is false information, you will be killed. So if you are lying, then speak up now." he said.

The woman stood to her feet and pounded the table in front of her. "You hero's are all the same! You think that just because someone is born into the life of a bandit that they are all untrustworthy!" she yelled.

Lyle turned and glared at her. "And yet have I been proven wrong. Who are you to preach at me about what my beliefs are?" he shouted back.

"I can't get a job! Nobody in this damned world would ever hire a woman like me! Why? Because I am not as attractive as all the others! You have to realize that not everybody is as coniving and selfish as you make them feel! Some of us have no choice but to become thieves because we are refused what we need in this world!" the woman shouted, almost in tears.

Lyle opened his mouth to say something, but he was rendered speechless by the bandits harsh words. Turning around, he finally said, "You may stay in this tent tonight. I will be back tomorrow morning. If your words are true, then you have nothing to worry about. When and if I find the thief, you will be rewarded upon my return. Until then, don't leave here." he said, then walked out of the tent.

Talon was waiting on the other side of the tent as he exited. "So, did you get what you needed?" she asked.

Lyle nodded. "We are headed back to Oakvale."

OoOoO

Lyle and Talon had waited in the inn forever, not seeing any trace of a merchant. Becoming tired of waiting in one place, they got up and walked around the town, looking for any merchants wandering around the streets, hoping the purpatrater was stupid enough to stick around.

After a while of walking, Lyle turned and looked at Talon who was walking next to him. He could tell just by looking at her that she was heavy with grief. Putting a hand on her shoulder, he said, "Is something wrong?"

She looked up at him. "So, your doing this for Lady Grey?" she asked.

Lyle thought for a moment before her attitude struck him. "Oh...is that what's wrong?" he asked.

"Of course it is." she said roughly.

Lyle sighed. "This is the last thing I need." he said to himself before stopping and staring at her. "Listen, I am doing this so..."

"So you can marry Lady Grey?" she asked. "I already knew that." she said turning away. Lyle grabbed her and made her face him.

"Look Maria, I am only marrying Lady Grey because it will bring peace to Albion. My wed to her has nothing to do with love." he said.

Knocking his hands away, she glared at him visciously. "You promised Lyle! You promised me that after the Arena, we would be set for good. That it would put us away for life. You said nothing about marrying her and bringing peace to some place that just wants to see you slaughter every living thing in sight!" she shouted.

"Why are you acting like this? I told you that I was only marrying her for peace!" he shouted back.

"Because Lyle! I love...!" she yelled, then covered her mouth before she could finish. Her eyes were filled with embarressment as she looked at him. His face was a mask of surprise at her outburst. She turned away and wiped tears from her face as she said, "Because, I...I love you." Lyle stood for a moment before he realized he had stopped breathing.

Stepping forward, he reached up and said, "Maria..." But, she vanished before his hand made contact with her. He stood for what seemed like ages before he moved again. Turning he walked along the path he was walking before when he came across a new addition to the town since he was a child. A rickety sign hanging above the entrance read,

Oakale Graveyard

In memory of those who died during

the bandit raid many years ago. May

their souls rest in peace.

Walking forward, he entered and looked at all the headstones of his deceased neibhors and friends from years before. A heavy mist swished around his feet as he entered the eerie court. After reaching the end, he did a U shape turn along the path, then found the grave he was looking for.

Brom

Loving father and

husband. Died

while protecting his

family.

When he saw the grave, he fell to his knees. His eyes stung with tears as he stared at the stone in front of him. "Please, father. Tell me what I should do. I know that marrying Lady Grey will bring peace, but I don't love her. I love...another..." he said as his head hung. He sat, tears pouring from his eyes, waiting for an answer to his question. But none came. Lyle looked up and stared at the headstone. As he stared, the mist began to gather in front of it and began to form what looked like a face. Lyle stared at it as it formed, but the mist instantly dispersed as voices came from the entrance to the graveyard.

"Cummon, its over here. I buried it in a place where nobody would ever think to dig." said a voice. Lyle stood slightly on one knee as he listened closer to the talking.

"So, you have to tell me, how did you get it?" asked another voice.

"It wasn't so hard. The hard part was getting into North Bowerstone. After that, the guards are so layed back that they can barely tell the difference between a thief and a balverine." said the first.

"Uh huh, go on."

"So, I slip under the nose of one of the guards and get myself into the city. Then I go for the richest house I can find. They feel so safe and cozy in that north part that they don't even have locks on the doors. So, I waits til the owner leaves, then I sac the place. Simple as that."

"But, how did you get back out?" asked the second voice with both curiosity and excitement.

"I just lugged the bag with me and said I was some merchant with goods to deliver. They bought the whole load and let me out! Can you believe it?" asked the first. "Ah, here we are. I have it buried under here."

Lyle had heard enough. He stood up slowly and made his way towards the voices silently, as not to alert them. Then, when he made out the figures, he stopped and watched. The man digging was obviously the merchant, and his comrade was standing next to him with a gut that could match a trolls.

"I tell ya mate, this one'll get us big gold in the outside world. Hah! I got it!" he said and held up a velvet case that he had just pulled from the ground. Suddenly, the man screamed as an arrow flew and nailed his hand to the tree behind them. Both men looked into the darkness and saw the dark figure of Lyle emerge from the mist. The large man turned and ran, leaving his friend to pay the penalty.

Lyle walked forward and picked up the box that the man had dropped. Dusting it off, he opened it and revealed a beautiful necklace made of gold, with a giant sapphire set right in the center and pearls outlining it. Carved into the sapphire was a 'G', signifying the Grey House. After putting the case into his satchel, he turned to the merchant.

"Please...please don't kill me! It wasn't me who took it, I swear!" shouted the man. Lyle took out his sword and pointed it at the mans throat, making him whimper with fear.

"This didn't belong to you." he said as he pressed the blade against the mans throat. "The hand I just shot won't be able to steal anymore, but if I hear that you have been stealing with the other one, I'll remove it permanently. Understand?" he asked venomously.

The man nodded his head violently. "Of course, I'll never steal as long as I live!" he sobbed.

"Good, now do me a favor."

"Anything." he said.

"Shut up." said Lyle, then punched the man in the stomach knocking him out instantly. Lyle pulled the arrow from the tree and tossed it aside, then lifted the merchant onto his shoulder...