LordDarthYoda - Yeah, there is a lot of Seperatist foreshadowing here. And as you said, Zven and Quetziel aren't completely wrong. Some points their misinterpreteing, but in general their points are solid (Nara and Sascha may not think so). Tiplee and Aurine probably wont interact with the Padawans for a bit, though we'll see them in the next chapter. They're going to come back into the story soon enough though.
Tristin- Thanks for the comment. I'm sure you can think of something negative to say if you try hard enough :p.
SpeechBubbleMe- Well this next chapter won't exactly be the Lincoln-Douglass debates, but I do think that having the Jedi voice their own viewpoint is a good idea. People can be irrational against things they don't understand, but when they actually see a Jedi, they might be swayed. As for my own opinions...I tend to think that the Jedi are somewhat hypocritical, but their intentions were good. I think the Jedi Council acts wildly irrationally to serve the plot too often - 'Ahsoka is implicated in attacking the Temple? Let's cast her out after a brief trial, all the while forgetting that we raised her from youth, and know that she is a good person.' 'We suspect that Palpatine is a Sith Lord? Better have Anakin spy on him, even though he views Palpatine like a father. Don't even bother asking one of the other 10,000 Jedi Knights that we have, we're good.' Anyway I could write a whole essay on the ethics of the Jedi. In general I see them as proponents of Utilitarianism (in the John Stuart Mill sense...google it!).
A/N - No comments except that I'm on vacation this week, so next chapter might be longer than usual :).
As always, Please enjoy the next chapter.
Chapter 14: The Great Jedi Debate, Part Two
Dead silence broke out in the auditorium.
The silence lasted for a second or two before a crescendo of noise replaced it. Sascha heard some people laughing at them, some wanted proof that they were Jedi. Zven glared daggers through Nara, while Quetziel...well, Quetziel looked like he wanted to kill both of them. In fairness, there was a few other around that seemed like they might want to do that. But he and Nara stood firm, unmoving in the face of hostility.
"QUIET!" yelled Zven.
If possible, the noise in the room became louder. Sascha decided it was time to make use of the Force. He used the Force to amplify the sound of his voice around the room, and given it was an amphitheater, his voice projected quite nicely, "THERE WILL BE SILENCE!"
Eventually the noise in the room quieted enough so that Zven could be heard again, "Are we really supposed to belive that both of you are Jedi?" Zven glared fiercely at Nara, evidently he wasn't going to take this betrayal in good spirits.
"Someone in here has access to the Holonet? Just look in the Jedipedia, you'll see both of us listed," said Nara confidently.
"Or if you'd prefer to see our lightsabers, we could do that as well," he said.
A small commotion broke out of that. In Sascha's experience, everyone wanted to see their lightsabers. Few ever got the chance to see a real lightsaber in person, and none of the students here wanted to give up their opportunity.
Someone in the back of the auditorium shouted, "I see them in the Jedipedia! That's them, Nara Nalto and Sascha Wheatstar."
"Whitestar," he corrected politely.
"I see them too," said another. "They actually are Jedi!"
Nara smirked and took out her lightsaber from her pouch, igniting it and holding it over her head. There was an audible 'ooo' as just about every head in the auditorium swiveled so that they could get a better view of Nara's lightsaber. He could have brought his out as well, but it seemed like it wouldn't go any further to establishing the two of them as Jedi's identity. Jedi weren't supposed to show off, anyway.
He thought for a moment that sanity was going to break out and after all the commotion, he and Nara could have a nice debate with Zven and Quetziel. That nice thought lasted only for a few moments after Nara put her lightsaber away.
"They're going to arrest us all," someone shouted.
A couple of people that were near the exit suddenly decided that they were late for some sort of appointment and made a hasty retreat through the doorway before calm could be restored.
"We aren't here to arrest anyone," said Nara in a calm, placating tone. "In fact if we were going to do that, we would have done it by now. As Zven said, no one here is doing anything illegal. Even if the police came and tried to arrest you right now, we'd protect you. All of you."
A murmur went through the crowd, and the room seemed to settle back down. After all, they were going to witness a debate between the Jedi and Zven and Quetziel? Who could possibly not want to see that?
"Ah yes," said Quetziel, his voice dripping heavily with sarcasm, "they great and noble Jedi would protect us. Very convenient, this hypothetical situation of yours."
"Do you want us to debate you or not?" he retorted. "You gave these people one side of the argument, don't you think that its only fair that someone gets to speak for the other side? Shouldn't a champion of free speech such as yourself welcome an alternative view?"
Quetziel glared at him, but off to the side of the stage, Zven smirked slightly, as if to acknowledge that they had a point, you couldn't prattle on about free speech for an hour and then turn around and deny it to someone else. Sascha was at least relieved to see that Zven was still pretty calm about this turn of events. Quetziel...Quetziel looked like he might launch himself at the two of them without further provocation.
"We welcome you, Jedi. Though we wish that you had not been duplicitous in your dealings," said Zven, shooting a pointed glance at Nara.
Nara steadfastly ignored Zven and his glare. The two Jedi made their way down the stairs and to the stage. Without a word passed between them the two Jedi bowed politely to Zven and Quetziel before bowing to the audience. He turned and smiled at Zven, "Do you mind if we get an opening statement, then we can debate free-form after that."
Zven opened his mouth to respond, but Quetziel shoved passed him rudely, "There's no use in debating these...Jedi whelps. They have nothing of interest to say to us!"
Nara stood her ground, "I wonder if anyone else feels the same as Quetziel. Do you really think we have nothing to say? Do you think we don't deserve to be able to speak here?"
"That's right," said Quetziel.
But, as Sascha expected, the crowd shouted him down. The audience wanted to see the Jedi. They wanted to see the showdown between the Jedi and their fellow students. Several of them were taking out their datapads so that they could record the whole thing. Which is what Sascha had been counting upon. People's insatiable curiosity. No one wanted to miss the time when two Jedi Padawans debated some anti-Jedi thinkers.
Zven put a hand on Quetziel's chest, "The Jedi deserve to be heard. Maybe we can even find some common ground."
Quetziel looked like his eyes might bulge out of his sockets at that last remark and he tried to speak, but Sascha silenced him by just talking over him. Not subtle, but it worked.
"I do think there is common ground between us," he said. "I agree with you that the Jedi should be more open. We are a bit like recluses. And in operating that way, I think we come off as arrogant, detached from the world around us. I don't think we are doing it maliciously, I think it comes from a lack of communication from the Jedi Order. We don't advertise, we never say what we are doing we just...appear, like we did today, do what we do, and then disappear back into the Temple. That isn't really a good way to build trust between us and the citizens of the Republic."
"There is no trust between the Jedi and the citizens of the Republic," retorted Quetziel loudly.
"I disagree," said Nara. "In fact, you are demonstrating trust right now."
"No, I'm NOT," replied Quetziel, who seemed to be on the verge of losing his temper. That was probably good, optics wise. If he and Nara could present a calm, reasoned argument, while Quetziel and Zven were wild, and angry, it would look better to the crowd. Just visually speaking, if two sides were having a debate and one side was getting angry, people just assumed that side was losing the debate.
"You are," said Nara pointedly. "If you didn't trust the Jedi at all, you'd be fleeing for your life. Despite your low opinion of us, you know that we are fundamentally trustworthy. We said that we want and honest debate and that we wouldn't arrest you. That is true. If you thought it was untrue...why are you still here Quetziel Roa?"
Quetziel puffed himself up like he was going to march right past them and out the door. Then, after a moment, he thought better of it, "You were the one's that wanted a debate, Jedi. I'm the one doing you a favour."
"Will you do us the favour of allowing us to speak then?" asked Sascha.
"We will," said Zven, silencing his companion. "We will give you the courtesy of being able to have an opening statement. Then we will debate. Debate is really the wrong word...we will have a dialog."
Sascha gave him a respectful nod, "Thank you. As I said earlier, there's some points that have been made here today that I agree with. There are many that I do not. Many of you wonder why the Jedi take their initiates as younglings. It's a common refrain that we hear throughout the galaxy. 'Why must you be so cruel' people ask us. So why does the Jedi Order do it?"
"An individual born with Force-sensitivity is not a normal child, not by any definition," said Nara. "Each force-sensitive child has the potential to be one of the galaxy's most fearsome warriors, as long as they get the right training. But it's not necessarily the training that is the most important part of why the Jedi take their Initiates as infants."
Sascha took over. "You are all, I'm sure, on some level, of comic book superheroes, whether they be Captain Coruscant, Hawk-bat Man, The Red Flash, and so on and so forth. Some even call us Jedi superheroes, which is of course flattering, but kind of misses the point. In the stories where the heroes fail, it is always when they are confronted with choices between the ones that they love and the 'right' choice. Often this is portrayed as a 'human' failing, a superhero's one weakness."
"But what if you could take away that weakness," Sascha continued. "What if you could make it so that this superhero has no allegiance to anything besides his fellow citizens? His family is unknown. His friends are similarly devoted to their jobs. This superhero appears to be incorruptible, because he has no weaknesses. No desires, other than to serve. You'd probably say that is a very boring superhero. And you'd probably be correct," he said with a smile. "But that is, essentially what the Jedi do. We take away the outside influences so that a Jedi, individually is incorruptible."
"Is that your claim?" asked Zven skeptically. "The Jedi are above corruption, above the influences of mere mortals like us?"
"No," said Nara. "I, like everyone want to save my friends, have loyalty on some level to my home planet, see handsome boys as handsome as so on and so forth. But I do not believe that I, or any other Jedi are above these emotions. But they may have less impact for us. I have never been to Shili. I only have a few memories of my parents. I have some minor loyalty to my planet and my parents, but nothing that would sway my decision making. And that is what makes the Jedi the Republic's best diplomats. I cannot be bought, or influenced. I accept that there are diplomats in the Republic that have similar dispositions. But this is why when mediation is required, the Republic sends a Jedi, because they know that whoever they send will do their best, and that they are beyond being influenced to make a decision a certain way."
"So you believe that the sacrifices you make, to live without family, to live without a chance to have children, to have been taken from your homes as younglings is the price you have to pay to produce Jedi," said Zven. "You see no alternative to this? You don't see how this makes the Jedi look?"
Sascha knew that this question was a personal one for Nara. She was the one that actually knew her parents. She knew their names, knew their faces, and she knew how much it had pained them to give her over to the Jedi.
"I think," Nara said slowly, deliberately, "When you are dealing with exceptional individuals such as potential Jedi, every step needs to be taken so that these children don't grow up and become a potential threat..."
"So these infants are dangerous?" interrupted Quetziel. "That's why families are destroyed?"
"They are dangerous. To their parents even. There's a reason why the Jedi keep the list of Force sensitive children embedded in a kyber crystal. There are probably about three hundred children that are taken into the Jedi Order each year. Three hundred. In the entire galaxy. But imagine that a criminal syndicate knew of a Force-sensitive child. They would likely try to kidnap the child, either to train them themselves or to sell them to the highest bidder. When you are talking about one of the most precious resources in the galaxy...some advanced precautions are necessary."
"What about the parents, huh? What about their right to raise a child of their own?" snarled Quetziel.
Sascha shared a quick look at Nara. He silently gave her an almost imperceptible shake of his head. While he was almost completely sure that Quetziel was related in some way to his clanmate Doro, it wouldn't be polite or just to bring it up during this 'debate.'
"Sometimes we must serve the greater good," Nara said simply.
"And who determines the greater good, Jedi?" asked Zven, "You? You talk about the greater good, and I assume you make the grandiose claim that it is for the greater good of the galaxy. But what about the greater good for the individual? You say that there are only three hundred families that are destroyed each year, and that is a small price to pay in a galaxy that has trillions and trillions of beings in it. But those small cruelties are still cruelties."
Nara took a moment to reply and he almost jumped in, but his friend was clearly just taking the time to formulate a response, "I agree that it's cruel. Unfathomably cruel. I remember the day that I was taken away from my parents...it was the worst day of my life, bar none. In the end though...I've saved thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of lives. What is more important, my parents having a child taken from them, or thousands of parents losing their children?"
"One would suggest that this might be left up to the parents of these children," suggested Zven.
"And it is," he said. "No parent has their kid taken from them. That's just propaganda spread by those that dislike the Jedi. Let's face it, few beings are selfish enough to keep their children from becoming Jedi."
"So it's not really a choice at all then," said Zven. "Either hand over your child, or be a selfish, social pariah."
Sascha shrugged casually, "I suppose you could put it like that."
"So you concede the point?" asked Zven incredulously.
"No. I just believe that we reached to logical endpoint to this discussion. I maintain that our Initiates are not taken by force and gave evidence. You argued the other side, that societal pressures make it so that parents hand over their children 'voluntarily.' Is there really any point in arguing this any further?"
Zven smiled tightly, "As long as you concede that I am correct."
"Never," said Nara, smiling sweetly.
Zven opened his mouth to respond, but Quetziel's patience eventually appeared to run out. "I don't understand why we are discussing this small issue, when the big issue is the Jedi controlling and sabotaging the Republic and the Senate, all the while taking up resources for themselves. Any response, Jedi?"
"Maybe you should pick one of those topics to discuss," he said, hiding a smile. Quetziel's almost unhinged performance in this debate was really adding to the Jedi's side. Zven's companion just didn't have the patience and eloquence to have a civilized, public discussion.
"Fine. Do you deny that the Jedi control the Republic?"
"Of course," he replied. "If we wanted to control the Republic, we'd just do it. Why would we need an intermediary?"
"So you can have a convenient scapegoat at hand, obviously," replied Quetziel.
Sascha frowned, "But...why? The Jedi Order is far more supported by the public than the Republic Senate. I don't know if a poll has ever been taken to confirm this, but I'd bet that some portion of the Republic would be in favour of the Jedi just taking over. We have no interest in doing this, of course."
"And you think that the Jedi would do a better job of running the Republic then our politicians?" asked Zven.
It was a good question and counterpoint by the experienced debater, Zven. Claiming that the Jedi would do a better job than the current Senate would not only be the height of arrogance, it would also probably be true. Footage of any Jedi claiming that the Jedi would do better than politicians in running the Republic would also be a quick way to undermine the relationship between the Jedi and the Republic. So his answer called for tact.
"I think with a political organization as large and as varied as the Senate, there are always going to be periods of time where things are more chaotic then others. Now is certainly a period of deadlock and instability. Even though there have been Jedi Chancellors in the distant past, I feel like it is best for the Republic to have a Chancellor that is a non-Jedi. Every young person in the Republic should feel like they have the ability to grow up and become Chancellor. That would not be possible if the Chancellor had to be a Jedi."
Zven smiled slightly, recognizing a skilled dodge of the question. "Don't you think that the Jedi have become too involved in the politics of the Republic? For an Order of un-elected monks, you seem to always be at the heart of many controversies."
"It's a good question. I don't know what the right amount of involvement is," Sascha admitted. "But lets play a hypothetical game. Say you got what you wanted and the Jedi Order simply picked up and left, what would happen after that?"
"Things would get a whole lot better," said Quetziel.
Nara caught his eye and Sascha ceded the floor to his friend, "Well the first thing that you'd probably notice would be that your taxes would go up."
Quetziel snorted, "Preposterous. The Jedi are a drain on our resources, not a boon."
"I disagree," said Nara smoothly. "If the Jedi Order left tomorrow, the first thing that would have to be done would be the creation of an army and space navy to protect the Republic. That would be expensive. And thus, your taxes would probably grow up."
"I don't know if you noticed, Jedi, but the Republic doesn't have a military even now," said Quetziel.
"That's because there's ten thousand Jedi Knights that defend the Republic," said Nara. "We tend to be a pretty big deterrent to outsiders attacking. Everyone remembers what happened to the Zygerrians when they attacked? Their empire was destroyed by the Jedi Order."
"And you should have did it earlier," said Zven. "Slaving scum has no place in the galaxy."
Sascha privately agreed with him, as did many other Jedi. However there was no point in bringing that up during this debate.
"Ignoring that," continued Nara. "The Jedi Order maintain peace within the Republic far better than a traditionally military can at fractions of the price."
Zven rolled his eyes dramatically, "And there it is, the Jedi taking credit for there being peace in the galaxy."
"If you desire peace, prepare for war," quoted Sascha. "We can craft all these narratives around it if we want, but the truth is, no one fights inside the Republic because no one wants the wrath of 10,000 Jedi coming down upon them. It's the Jedi's strength that is one of the reasons that the Republic has had this period of peace. If we packed up and left, there are a hundred different regional conflicts that might flare up."
Zven clapped his hands together sarcastically, "A great array of hypotheticals there. Truly impressive stuff making up a scenario that doesn't exist to prove the Jedi's efficacy."
Sascha's mouth twitched slightly and he saw people in the audience nodding. In fairness, he had put hypotheticals on top of hypotheticals. "We are talking about scenarios that don't exist," he conceded gracefully.
But that was enough for Zven to turn and speak directly to the assembled audience and speechify, "You see the arrogance of these two Jedi! They think that they can just prance down here, say a few words and have everyone change their mind like you are weak willed sheep that can only pay attention to the shiny thing that is in front of them." Zven whirled on the two Jedi, "Tell me, why are you here, why are you doing this? Isn't this just another mission for you? Do you even care? Do the Jedi care about any of us?"
A couple of shouts of encouragement followed Zven's emphatic speech. So much for debate. The Zabrak had gone for emotion, so Sascha decided that he would too.
"If we didn't care, we wouldn't be here," he said. "We would have just ignored you and went on with our lives. Or if we were truly tyrannical, we would have simply had the police arrest everyone in this room. But we didn't do that. Nara and I are here, talking to you today because we care that misinformation is being spread about us. We care, because we care about the Republic. We care, because we want to help as many of you as possible. We care...because we gave up the normalcy of our lives, so that you can lead rich, fulfilling lives. I do not have a homeworld. I will never take a wife. I will lead a life of simple austerity. And why do I do it? I do it for all of you. Nara and I, we will fight bounty hunters, and rush into danger so that you don't have to. We act as a military so we don't have mandatory conscription. My life...our lives," he corrected, throwing an arm around his friend and pulling her into a hug, "Our lives are dedicated to you. So of course we care. No one like to sacrifice in vain."
Sascha brushed away a tear that had sprung up. He had thought about the sacrifices that he had made in his own life, but rarely had he vocalized them, and never in public like this. But it was true. The reason that the Jedi operated the way that they did was that so the vast majority of the citizens of the Republic could just live their lives, free of oppression or war. He thought of his own life as fulfilling in its own way, but he couldn't pretend that it was not without sacrifice.
"Great speech," whispered Nara, "You really turned it around on him."
"Bring it home, Nara," he whispered back. The truth was at that very moment, he probably couldn't have continued to speak without becoming more emotional. The last thing Sascha wanted was to find some video on the Holonet titled 'Emotional Jedi sobs during speech to students.
Nara stepped forward and focused her attention on the crowd, "Though I shouldn't have to say it, everything that my friend Sascha says is true. We serve, so that you can attend Universities of such quality. We serve the Republic because we believe in its ideals. We are here because we care so very, very much. Zven and Quetziel can slander us, spread lies, and protest us. That's fine. Their words do not scar us. But consider this, why do we need to change the Republic? It's stood for more than five thousand years. If that isn't a successful partnership, I don't know what is. For generations, the Jedi have defended the Republic. And we will defend it for generations more. I'm asking you here, if you believe in the Jedi, to critique us, but to never doubt that we will act like we always have - in the best interest of the Republic and its citizens."
A chorus of applause started. It started softly, from a couple of people in the corner of the Auditorium, but it picked up in volume quickly as more and more people joined in. By the time the crescendo reached its peak, about seventy five percent of the audience was voicing their approval, with the other quarter sitting stone faced. It wasn't a complete victory. But it seemed like this recruitment rally was not going to be very successful. It wasn't going to stop people from forming opinions about the Jedi, but there was nothing they could do to combat that. All they could do was hope that their actions would speak loud enough to drown out those that wanted to pull them down.
After the applause faded, Quetizel swallowed a guttural cry before heading for the exit. Zven seemed to have sensed that he had lost this encounter, with his co-debater walking off the stage, so he walked over to the two Jedi, his face barely concealing the anger that radiated off him in the Force. "I'll never forgive you for this, Nara." Zven said, staring directly at the Togruta. Nara met his gaze without flinching. "I'll never stop fighting for what I believe in," Zven said, as his hands shook with barely suppressed rage.
"Good," he replied evenly. "Keep us honest. The Jedi are not beyond critique."
"You're beyond common sense," snarled Zven, waving an arm wildly. "You come in here and act like gods. Everyone fawns all over you, 'oh my stars, a real life Jedi.'" mimed Zven. "It's like a cult of personality. You Jedi have everyone fooled. The Republic will reach its potential when you Jedi are gone, just you wait and see."
"No, it won't," said Nara. "The Republic without the Jedi is no Republic at all."
"I hope you never have to experience a galaxy without the Jedi Order," Sascha said honestly.
"It sounds like a utopia to me," Zven raged. The Zabrak made a sound of frustration and then pushed past the Jedi, heading for the exit. A few of Zven's more devoted followers, including Jas, followed him. Still, more of the attendees hung around somewhat awkwardly. Many were typing on their datapads excitedly, no doubt telling their friends what they had just witnessed. Some were still looking at he and Nara with skepticism, but most of them seemed to have been convinced, at least partially, that the Jedi were not about to take over the Republic. That would have to be enough.
He nudged Nara's shoulder, "Let's go play the nice Jedi for another hour or so. Answer questions, that kind of thing."
"Winning hearts and minds one at a time," Nara replied with a coy smile on her face. "Sounds like a plan. Let's do it."
He and Nara turned to face the crowd, "Now, if anyone has any questions, we'll be answering them for the next little bit..."
"Can we see a demonstration with your lightsabers," shouted someone.
A loud chorus of cheers followed that pronouncement.
Sascha shrugged, "It's always the lightsabers," he said to Nara, finding some of his usual good cheer returning. He turned and spoke to the crowd, "Okay, stand back and give us some space. Nara and I will show you some basic moves."