Never Have I Ever, Pt 2.17

Ch. 19

Title: The Talk, Pt 1

Summary: While Bucky and Tim do a little fishing out on the pier, Steve takes the opportunity to speak with Jack about his feelings for Bucky and what they do or don't mean for them. Jack gives him some insight that makes him feel much more comfortable about moving forward in his relationship with Bucky.


Jack returned from his beer run about forty minutes later. He parked the car where he'd originally found it and opened the door. The three at the table turned to regard his arrival and Tim and Steve waved. As Jack took the cases of beer from the back seat, Steve excused himself from the table and went over to help him.

"Hey, Jack, did you get everything?" Steve asked with a slightly concerned look on his face. Jack smiled at him and handed him a case of beer.

"Sure did. Everything requested and… a little gift from me and Tim," he replied as he retrieved a white plastic bag with a red "McCormick's Pharmacy" logo. Steve took it from him and did his best to hide it under his arm as they walked to the cabin.

"You didn't have to get us a gift," Steve told him. Jack put a case on the kitchen island and reached for the bag stuffed under Steve's arm.

"I wanted to… and it makes me feel better knowing you have it. I'll explain why I prefer using these as prep instead of… well, I'll show you what I mean and how to use them in a second," he took a flat square box out of the bag so Steve could open it while he placed the bottles individually on the top shelf of the fridge and folded up the cardboard container, stuffing it between the fridge and the wall. Then he tucked the second case on the bottom shelf. "How's it going out there?" he asked, looking out the window at Tim and Bucky talking at the table.

"Really well, actually," Steve told him as he frowned at the items inside the box. "I'm really glad you guys came over. Bucky and Tim are really hitting it off."

"Tim's a great guy," Jack assured him. "He's got history not completely unlike some of Bucky's experiences. There's going to be some empathy vibes there."

"Oh… I'm sorry to hear that," Steve replied. "I didn't know that."

"Yeah," Jack explained as he kept watch out the window then turned to lean against the kitchen table to give his attention fully to Steve. "He grew up with a stepfather who had no tolerance at all for "weak men"… it didn't seem to matter to him that Tim was only eleven when he married his mother. As Tim became a teenager it was becoming clear to "dear old stepdad" that his wife's son wasn't a lady's man and things got a lot worse for him."

"Geez."

"Yeah," Jack said and then shrugged. "He's made the best of it. He uses that experience… knowing how it felt to be de-valued and physically harmed… de-humanized… and his experience in surviving it both physically and mentally… emotionally… he takes it all and puts it toward helping others. He was the one who really wanted to come over. It was really eating him up this past week or so, to know Barnes was here," Jack explained, "and he's quite intuitive. He kept telling me that he was sure that the person in the car with you that day had to be Bucky and that you probably brought him out here for a sort of healing getaway."

Raising his eyebrows, Steve smiled. "He is quite intuitive."

"Yep," Jack nodded with a grin. "So what are they planning?"

"They want to go fishing," Steve told him, "just off the pier there. I told them it was a great idea… they can do that for a while and you and I can talk."

Jack grinned again. "What about?"

"Shut up," Steve told him. "You know what about. I need some advice. I'm going into this thing blind. You know that."

"So?" Jack asked. "When you're wandering about blindly; what do you use to guide yourself?" he asked and then raised his hands. "They're your best tools when first starting out. Use them."

Steve let out a brief laugh. "Come on. Let's go outside before they come looking for us. Let me just put this stuff away."

Jack nodded and waited for Steve to put away the things he'd brought back for him. He grabbed four beers as he waited and then they went outside. Bucky and Tim stood up as they approached the table, getting ready to get the gear and head out to do a little casting. Steve stopped next to Bucky and handed him a beer as Jack walked around the table to greet Tim.

"Did you miss me?" Jack asked and Tim smiled, snaking his arms around Jack's torso.

"I always miss you when you're gone," he told him. They smiled at one another and then shared a lingering but chaste kiss. Jack had a beer in each hand as he wrapped his arms loosely around Tim.

Steve smiled openly at the two of them. It wasn't like he'd never seen the couple kiss and hug before. He glanced at Bucky to see that he'd averted his gaze and lowered his head as if to give the pair a little privacy. As they remained entwined for a few seconds longer than really necessary, Steve noted that Bucky was now watching them but trying to be discreet about it. He gave him a minute to take in the sight of the two men openly showing their affection and then turned to Bucky with a grin.

"Did you miss me?" he asked, echoing Jack's greeting. Bucky looked at him and then scowled, but it was all an act. Jack and Tim looked at him and both chuckled when they saw Bucky's feigned annoyance.

"Shut up," Bucky told him. Steve tried not to laugh and raised his hands as if to ask 'what?' "You were gone for two minutes and you were in the cabin."

"But did you miss me?" Steve asked again, smiling. Bucky stared at him for a long moment and it felt to Steve like his eyes could bore holes in his skull.

"No," Bucky answered so matter-of-factly that both Jack and Tim laughed outright at Steve's fallen expression. Then Bucky turned away and headed for the shed to get the fishing gear.

Steve turned to his friends trying to look hurt. Tim and Jack offered him looks of sympathy. "He hates being put on the spot," Steve told them with a grin.

"Fuck you, Rogers!" Bucky's voice reached them even as he turned the corner and disappeared behind the cabin. Jack, Steve and Tim all laughed.

"Okay, gotta go or I'll be left behind," Tim told Jack and gave him another peck on the lips. As they parted Tim took one of the beers from Jack's hand.

"You can use my fishing pole," Steve told him. "We only set up the two we were using so be my guest."

"Thanks," Tim replied and followed the direction Bucky had taken toward the shed as Jack and Steve retook their seats at the table.


Tim found Bucky in the shed. He handed Tim a fishing pole and a tackle box then grabbed his own. He opened the box to be sure there was a pair of needle nose pliers in it, just in case. As he checked the contents for everything he would need or want to use, Tim spoke up to check Bucky's mood; not knowing what to expect after the last cursory response he made toward Steve.

"Steve's quite the character, isn't he?" Tim asked, conversationally.

"He's a punk," Bucky replied in a serious tone. Then he turned to look at Tim and smiled then he breathed out a laugh. "God, he can be such a jerk sometimes." Tim smiled at him, now knowing that their exchange had been in good fun and obviously wasn't totally unexpected on Steve's part as he hadn't taken Bucky's words seriously. "Come on, let's go. You ready?" Bucky asked him. Tim nodded and they headed to the small pier.


"I just want to say thanks for helping me out today. I'm honestly unprepared for the direction my relationship with Bucky seems to be headed," Steve confided in Jack as they watched their partners walking down the pier.

"I kind of figured as much," Jack told him. "It's not every day I'm asked to do that sort of a pharmacy run for my friends," he said with a smile.

"I'm sorry," Steve said. "I should have done it myself, but… if we don't end up going there, I don't want him to feel he's disappointed me… and I certainly don't want him to feel obligated. I didn't know what else to do."

"No need to apologize, Steve. I think it's great that you've taken steps to make an encounter safer and more comfortable for both of you, even if it doesn't get there and if it doesn't, no harm done." Steve nodded and shot a look to their partners enjoying themselves on the pier. "Can I ask you a personal question?" Jack ventured carefully.

Steve looked back at him and nodded. "Yes, of course."

"Have you kissed him yet?"

Steve's thoughts immediately went to the first time he'd kissed Bucky and how Bucky had responded to him. That instance hadn't turned out the way he'd hoped it would, but their second time was much better after they'd talked and then fell asleep in each other's arms. And then there was the kissing out on the dock earlier today -

"Yes," Steve finally answered.

Jack smiled but his eyebrows knitted together as he sensed there was more to Steve's answer. "And?" he asked and Steve looked at him with a blank expression. "How did it go?"

"Umm, well -," Steve began and Jack chuckled softly. "The first time was great… but I didn't handle it well."

"What happened?" Jack asked, realizing it was a bit more serious than just getting used to your kissing partner having chin stubble.

"I was singing to him," Steve started to explain.

"Nice," Jack replied with a soft smile.

"Bucky loves to dance, so we were dancing… together… slow…" Steve explained and Jack nodded. "He started to pull away… he's got some issues he's still working through… emotional, you know-,"

"I can't even imagine," Jack told him; his tone was soft and empathetic.

"Well, I knew he was pulling away because the song I was singing to him was churning up his emotions and he was backing away… I panicked. I grabbed his face in my hands and kissed him…"

Jack wanted to ask a question but waited instead for Steve to finish.

"When I pulled away, he was looking at me as if I had totally surprised him…" Steve continued.

"I'm sure you did," Jack replied.

"I did and I immediately apologized for not asking permission," Steve told him and Jack nodded, indicating that was the appropriate thing to do. "As I was apologizing he grabbed me and I thought he was angry and acting out against what I'd done… he pushed me backward and slammed me against the wall -," Steve detailed the first incident.

"Oh man," Jack remarked.

"But when he got me up against the wall, the next thing I realized was he was kissing me back," Steve told him. "He was so… bruising," Steve explained and then shook his head. "That's not the right word… he was-."

"Hungry?" Jack asked and Steve looked at him.

"Yeah, he was hungry… nearly frantic for it."

"He'd spent the whole of his adult life in a tragic situation," Jack told him. "It's not all that surprising that when you initiated loving contact that he came back for it with such intensity. He hadn't known that kind of touch or that kind of… softness… in a long time."

"I know," Steve told him, "but it made me realize… that… I don't know if I can…"

"You can," Jack told him with a certainty that brought Steve's thoughts to a skidding halt.

"What if he's so overwhelmed? What if I am? What do I do if-?" Steve asked but Jack interrupted his frantic fears.

"Hey, hey, hey," he said, raising his hands to get Steve's attention. "You've known each other you're entire lives," he reminded Steve. "You know him better than anyone else does. It seems to me that the only thing you focus on with this much intensity is Bucky. Give him a little credit," Jack said.

"I give him a lot of credit," Steve told him.

"What I mean is… trust in him to tell you if he's feeling overwhelmed or if he's unsure of something." Steve nodded that he understood. "But you know what? He needs to know he can trust in you to do the same. He needs to know that if he does something that you're not comfortable with that you'll tell him."

"I will," Steve told him.

"Make sure he knows that. I'm guessing there's not a lot in life that you two haven't shared," Jack told him. "I bet you two have always told each other everything." Steve nodded. It was the truth. They had confided in each other and shared secrets their whole lives. "Don't stop now," Jack told him. "This is probably the most important step in your relationship… and this is where you both want to be sure that you're both on the same page at all times."

Steve nodded and then he frowned as he followed a thought and Jack picked up on it.

"What is it?" he asked. Steve looked up at him in question; not realizing he'd made his thoughts that obvious. "You're thinking about something that you're unsure of. I can tell. What is it?"

"Oh, I was just wondering if what we're doing- where we're heading in this relationship…" Steve began and then stopped.

"What?" Jack asked, prompting him to continue.

"Does this make us gay?" Steve asked him. "I mean, I don't feel gay." Jack smiled at him and then laughed lightly. "I'm sorry, that was a stupid thing to ask… obviously I'm gay."

"Are you?" Jack asked him seriously.

"Aren't I?" Steve asked for clarity. "Aren't we?"

Jack took a long pull from his beer bottle and shifted in his seat a little; leaning back he pulled one leg out from under the table to sit straddling the bench so he could watch Tim and Bucky on the pier and still give his full attention to Steve.

"Let me tell you something, my friend," Jack started. "This isn't the 1930's anymore."

"I know that," Steve replied.

"We're living in a time where most people are more open and much more comfortable about sexuality; not just their own, but others' as well. That being said, the heterosexual experience continues to dominate the thoughts of most people as to what the normal sexual experience should be.

"I'm assuming you've slept with women before," Jack ventured and Steve nodded. "Okay, so now, you're a man who feels his destiny may lie elsewhere. The very thought of sleeping with another man might feel daunting, even overwhelming, if not truly terrifying," he said and Steve nodded. That was the truth. "If you've only ever slept with women before, your first sexual encounter with another guy may not live up to your fantasies or your expectations."

"I think that's partly what concerns me," Steve told him. "I've known since I was about fourteen that I was in love with Bucky."

"Holy cow," Jack remarked. "That long?"

"Yeah," Steve replied nodding. "I've been attracted to women - a lot of women," he told Jack, "… but only one man."

"You've never found other guys attractive?" Jack asked to be sure he understood what Steve was saying.

"No," Steve shook his head, "only Bucky."

"Well then, I'd say it's a safe bet you're not gay," Jack told him. Steve looked at him and Jack could see the question he had, as if it was written across his forehead in neon. "No, Steve, just because you want a sexual relationship with your best friend… who happens to also be a male, doesn't make you gay."

"But I thought that was the one true indicator of-," Steve began and stopped when he saw Jack shaking his head.

"Having sex with a man doesn't mean you're gay," Jack told him. "Society loves to put labels on people but human beings are sensual, sexual creatures. If we weren't being pressured into strictly heterosexual lifestyles by overbearing peers, I bet a good 90% of the human race would find comfort and satisfaction from both genders," Jack told him and then paused with a thought before continuing.

"The best part about you being who you are to the world," Jack explained, "is that you get to be whoever you want to be. You can present yourself to the media, to your teammates, to your family and friends however you want them to see you. All I ask of you, as a friend, is that you don't forget the sacrifices your gay brothers make on a daily basis so you can have that freedom to choose. You get to go back to your privileged status in the world, but Tim and I… we can only be us."

Steve listened closely to what Jack was telling him. He hung onto every word as if his life depended on it and he nodded, understanding that it was clearly different circumstances for men like Jack.

"'Gay' sexual encounters aren't something to be ashamed of, Steve," he told him with sincerity, "but if you're man enough to do it and still call yourself straight; be man enough to talk about it. Don't let it be a dirty little secret," Jack said. "It wouldn't be fair to Bucky… or to you. If you're going to commit to him in that way, then own your sexuality – however you want to define it – and own it with pride. You don't owe anyone an explanation. You don't owe it to anyone to justify your feelings for Bucky. The only person to whom you have to justify your feelings is Bucky."

Steve nodded and lifted his bottle. He took a couple of large swallows and lowered the bottle. He looked out at the pier and watched Bucky interacting with Tim as they fished side by side. He had to smile.

"You're right, of course," he told Jack. "I would have to anyway," he admitted. "I could never disrespect Bucky in that way. If someone were to ask… how could I ever dismiss how much he means to me?"

Jack smiled as he listened to Steve and nodded. "Well, I'd say you have little to worry about then."

Steve turned to look at him and frowned. "Oh no, I have plenty to worry about, Jack. I've never… I've not… I have an idea of what to do, but…" Steve sighed.

"Okay, listen up," Jack told him, "here beginneth your lesson," he said lightly and made Steve chuckle softly. "We begin with the kiss," Jack began, "but you've already gone there so you already know -."

"Wait, I already know what?" Steve interrupted, tossing a glance to the pair out on the pier setting up their hooks, to be sure they had time for a lesson on… wow, Steve thought How to make love to your man: 101

"I think a first kiss, for anyone, is the most exciting part of a new relationship," Jack told him. "It's the hardest threshold to cross because it's the very first step toward intimacy… and it can make or break future physical encounters with that person. There's never a guarantee that it'll go further than that, but no matter what happens, you can't be un-kissed," Jack said with a smile. "Was it good - the first time?"

"Umm," Steve had to think back on the encounter, "it made me feel good… and when Bucky reciprocated it was over the top, but then I… ended it… and ruined it."

"How so?" Jack asked; a note of concern in his voice.

"I was afraid we were moving too fast and that Bucky wasn't thinking clearly, or at all, and I didn't want him to do anything he'd regret later so I pushed him away… I just wanted to talk about it first. You know, to be sure we were on the same page and not just reacting to the moment. He took it as a rejection and stormed out."

"Oh boy," Jack whispered, but then realized, "but you talked about it, right? I mean, you two seem to be in a good place now."

"Yeah, we talked, but I felt so bad about making him feel ashamed for wanting it so badly."

"Well, that's why we talk about things as we go," Jack told him. "You did what you felt was right to protect him and you had the chance to explain and he accepted your explanation. So we're past that now. Good, but that instance brings up a good point I was going to make anyway," Jack told him.

"Men, in general, kissing each other for the first time usually kiss too aggressively. Even when our male partner hasn't been touch starved for seventy years, it's a new experience if you've only ever kissed women. It can be something really nice, but also something to get used to. Hard kisses have their place, believe me and can be a welcome and erotic thing… but getting used to the shape of a male face, it's structure, the hardness… men are put together differently than women," Jack told him and Steve gave him a look that clearly said 'no kidding'.

"I'm talking about structurally, not just the sexual bits," Jack explained. "Men are just put together differently… the shape of their bodies, the size of their muscles… you're thinking, because you're a man that you know everything you need to know about a man's body and how it works. You're thinking there should be no surprises…. and you'd be wrong.

"The differences between you and he can be startling at first… he's like you, but he's not. If you've only ever slept with women you're going to find that the feel of a man's body and the difference in his shape, from that of a woman, might shock you at times. You may be frightened to touch it or unsure of your boundaries because the situation is so different from what you're used to… and because he's the same as you, but different," Jack explained. Steve nodded slowly, remembering how just earlier today, Bucky had asked if he could touch his body and Steve was a little surprised at how uncomfortable and tentative Bucky seemed to be as he let his hand explore and fondle him. Steve now understood why Bucky seemed nervous and hesitant, yet very curious, as he explored Steve's body.

"It's okay to feel frightened or nervous, but be curious and follow through…" Jack told him. "Having your partner exploring your body as he learns what you like and what you don't is extremely erotic."

Steve nodded with the memories of today fresh in his mind.

"The first time you press your bare chest to another man's is the strangest and the most exciting feeling," Jack told him, smiling fondly with his own memories. "Let those sensations propel you forward. Don't shrink away from it, use it.

"The other thing you should be aware of is the power dynamic that will occur between you, especially the first few times," Jack cautioned him. "As men, we're taught at a young age that we should take the lead with women… that we have a responsibility to them. We're made to believe that we have to be the best performer, that to be a great partner we have to give more than we receive… and at all costs, our partner should always come first… pun not intended."

Steve blinked and had to replay Jack's words in his head to find the pun. He smiled and nodded when he realized the point Jack was making.

"Sex between two men may feel like you're both on equal ground so you might question your role in it… both of you will at some point during the encounter," Jack explained. "So how do you decide on positions… or if he gives you oral sex do you have to reciprocate? Is it okay to only give it or receive it? There's no right or wrong answers," Jack told him. "Any questions so far?"

Steve looked at Jack to see him smiling knowingly and he had to laugh. "Yeah! Tons!"

Jack chuckled and nodded with a pleased expression. "Good. You should." He turned to watch his partner on the pier with Bucky. It appeared that Tim had caught a fish that had swallowed the hook and they were working to remove it. He had to smile; Tim was always letting the fish swallow the hook. He watched for another minute and then looked at Steve. "So what's your first question?"

Steve's eyebrows rose to the top of his forehead and he shook his head, laughing lightly. "Where do I start?" he asked, and Jack laughed with him.

"I get it," Jack told him. "You know… there was a first time for me and Tim too," he reminded Steve. "So let's get down to brass tacks here," Jack decided to go right for the jugular, figuratively speaking. "Let's talk about the penis," he said. He said it so conversationally that Steve shot him a look and then had to laugh despite himself and Jack smiled. "Well, there it is… it's out in the open… right in front of you. You've been friends for decades, I'm sure you've probably seen each other in the buff… most likely not at attention though." Steve felt himself blushing and had to laugh. "You want me to stop?" Jack asked him with a smile on his face.

"No, no," Steve answered. "Keep going. I'm sure I need to hear this."

"Oh you do," Jack told him, feigning seriousness. "It's a great subject though… one of my favorites," he said, still beaming. Jack's easy way of discussing the very details of the subject matter really helped to put Steve at ease with the entire topic. "Okay, so there it is… same as you, but probably not like yours at all… and your first thought when you see him for the first time will be to compare and you might feel a little self-conscious… but remember, everything that you're feeling and thinking and worried about, so is he."

Steve nodded again; realizing that the two of them are going into this together and being reminded that all of his doubts and fears are going to be mirrored by Barnes made him feel that he really was treading into this territory with a partner.

"Okay, so… the penis… you know what this thing does and yet it's still a mystery to you. Should you touch it? Should you ask? Yes and yes. Turn all your nervous energy into bravado and forge ahead. Ask for his consent and then go forward… touch it, feel it, explore it. Keep your eyes on his while you do it; watch his reaction, see how he responds to your touch. Does he look at you too? Does he look away? Does he close his eyes? Does he laugh as he watches you?"

"God, I hope not," Steve said.

"It's all okay," Jack told him. "We all have our own responses to different things. If he laughs, he's not necessarily laughing at you, but probably just laughing at the fact that this is really happening. And it's all okay. But you want to watch his face… look for his responses to you. You need to do that to gauge how he feels about what you're doing."

Steve nodded; remembering how Bucky had done that to him when he was exploring. His attention was now focused on Bucky standing on the pier, realizing that Bucky seemed so much more intuitive than he felt at the moment. Bucky was always an empathetic person though; a romantic at heart and incredibly sensual. It was one of the reasons the ladies were always drawn to him. He was caring and thoughtful in all things.

"Now, I don't want to assume anything, but I presume you've held yours in your own hand at one time or another," Jack said, biting back a grin as he looked at Steve. Steve's eyes slid from the pier to Jack to see him grinning. Steve just shook his head with a grin.

"Yeah," he admitted, "there have been times… perhaps more than once."

"Good man," Jack remarked, pleased. "Okay, so you know how yours feels in your hand… and you know exactly what to do to make it respond to your own touch…" Steve's smile faded as he listened; paying strict attention to whatever guidance Jack was willing to give him in the time they had before their partners returned. "You know how yours feels… but his in your hand will feel surreal at first. When it comes to hand jobs, think about how others… how women have touched it. Were they too hard? Too soft? Too timid? A bit aggressive? It's all trial and error, my friend, and if the only dick you're used to touching is your own… no judgment here, days are lonely and the nights are too long…" Steve breathed out a laugh at Jack's injected humor, "… you might worry that you're not doing it right. What you might like, may not be the same for your partner. You have to figure that out together. One tip though, like kissing… start off with a gentler touch than is your first instinct. If he wants you to step things up, he'll tell you."

Jack paused with a thought and hesitated before asking, but felt he should. "Do you know if Bucky's ever been with a man?" The tension that pulled at Steve's features set off an alarm in Jack's head. "Steve?"

Steve wasn't sure he should answer that question. It was Bucky's experience to share if he chose to, but as Steve weighed the decision as to whether he should answer, the fact that he hadn't yet, told Jack all he needed to know.

"I'm getting the feeling he has, but it wasn't consensual…" Jack mentioned with great care. He watched Steve closely and the bob of his Adam's apple, the pulse of the muscles in his jaw, the anger and sorrow in his eyes, told him what Steve couldn't say out loud. "Hydra?" he asked and Steve nodded almost imperceptibly. "I'm sorry," he offered. "That adds a whole other layer to your worries, doesn't it?" Steve swallowed heavily and nodded. "Has he discussed it with you?"

"Briefly," Steve told him.

"And how was he mentally during the discussion?"

"He was upset that that was the reason I pushed him away when he was kissing me. He told me that what Hydra did to him… I could never do. That it wasn't about sex… it was just another act of abuse and torture."

"Wow," Jack replied, a little surprised that Barnes had his head on pretty straight in regards to that horrific act committed against him.

"Yeah," Steve agreed, softly.

Jack looked again at Tim and Bucky out on the pier. They were smiling and sometimes laughing and he let his mind call up all the information he knew of Sgt. James "Bucky" Barnes.

"You got a hell of a guy there," he told Steve and his tone told Steve that he really meant it.

"I know I do," Steve agreed.


TBC'd in "The Talk" Part 2 will show up in Chapter 20