Chapter 11:
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The air felt cooler as they descended.
Lt Vixen took the lead, tracing out the way with her night vision and experience. Carmelita was at the rear, to pick up any pieces.
Between them, Jack and Judy walked on.
It hadn't taken long for the sound of the rain to vanish, instead replaced with a constant, monotonous trickle. Rain percolating down through the ceiling, channelled down short stumpy stalactites before raining down below, soon gathering into an ever growing stream that cut its way down.
The path itself was easy, a long gentle slope cut for pulling the guano carts back up, criss-crossing and zig zagging as it went. The most left for them to deal with were the odd old screws still hammered into the rock, or the steps cut to give the haulers hoof grips to push and pull.
In the meantime nature itself had thrown in far more to hold them up, slowly reclaiming its domain over the last century. Rock falls and slips were the most common and easy to avoid and, were it to stay like this, it wouldn't be too much of a problem.
It was the water that Judy was worried about. No drain channels or pipes had been laid in during the cutting process, instead the miners fine with letting what groundwater percolated in flow wherever it liked. Flowing down with their access ramp or just cascading down one edge and falling to the next, over and over. It wasn't like it mattered, to them.
Judy took a long step over the water cut gully, shying away from the water splashing down from above and into it, punching out a large plunge pool before cutting down and through, leaping out over the next tier before falling down again, the process repeating step after step after step.
It had been a bare trickle not long before, managing to cut only a few little notches in the stones.
They cut the corner on the next switchback, sliding down a small slip-fall twice their height before coming back to the water once more. "What happens when we can't cross it?" Judy asked, watching Lt Vixen make the long step over.
She turned back, shrugging as she helped Jack across. "I guess that's for us to find out," she smiled.
Judy took a running leap across, turning to watch Carmelita follow. The Inspector Fox just gave a shrug. "I'm afraid I don't have much else to offer. We're going into the unknown."
Joining in with her, Judy carried on. "Still, all the other raids, missions, all those journey's into enemy territory." She paused. "Into Krakarov itself. You must…"
"You either spend all your time preparing and you get there too late, or you jump ahead and end up caught." She shrugged. "Besides, I don't think cave exploration is something they usually teach cops, is it?"
There was a pause before Judy let out a chuckle, Carmelita turning to her and raising an eyebrow.
"It's an elective for special forces and mammals in the Nocturnal District," she smiled. "The old caverns, tunnels, there are some that still aren't mapped out. Places for mammals to go missing, things to be hidden." She looked forward. "Maybe that's where Rattigan is hiding out all this time, I…" She shook her head. "No, we still have bats down there. Lots of them. And I don't think they'd like him very much now after what went on."
"That and he'd need ways in and out," Carmelita said.
Judy nodded. "Yeah. Though there are hidden entrances and exits. After all, the Fox family had one… Thank god."
They turned around the next hairpin, carrying on with their descent. While their own trek hadn't changed much, the cave around them had. What gentle slope had existed before was soon replaced with an ever steeper plummet, the access track now weaving back and forth, ever narrower, tightly clinging on as it cut its way down.
"You still get bodies," the bunny said, Carmelita pausing to glance at her. "-In the nocturnal district. Every now and again a mapping group goes out. A bat or two, a few smaller mammals, usually a climbing mustelid of some kind, then the larger mammals. -There's regulations and such, trying to avoid a large mammal getting stuck, forever. And here and there, they find things. Dead bodies, stolen goods, sometimes lying open, sometimes buried. Usually small things, small mammals, sometimes something larger. Sometimes we know it's brute force, sometimes it's clear it's dehydration. Sometimes it answers some great mystery. Most times it creates one."
Carmelita gave a short chuckle. "You Zootopians."
"Admit it," the bunny managed with a smile. "You're jealous."
Carmelita was silent, a smirk on her muzzle as they reached the next area of water fall. The path down had gotten so steep that the water launched from the level above crashed down most of the way to the edge of this one. Rather than leaping across a deep cut gulley, they could edge their way behind the cascade.
As four, the group looked on at their route. It wasn't long, but there was only a tiny ledge between the rear of the plunge pool and the edge of the cliff towering above them. Lt Vixen was already slipping her bags off her back, Jack looking on for a second before reaching in to start unpacking a rope.
No words were spoken as Carmelita clocked the plan, taking one end and starting to unwrap it, all as the army fox stood up to the wall. Eyeing it for a second, finding a paw hold or two, she held herself tight as she sidestepped to the other side, soon turning to catch the rope. Carmelita had already pulled it through one of the bag straps and the pair worked at pulling it across, Jack and Judy getting the rest of their equipment ready for transferring over.
"How did you learn all this?" Judy asked.
Carmelita paused, turning to look at her, head tilting.
"It's not like Paris has a nocturnal district like Zootopia, or… -Well you know," she rolled off.
Carmelita gave a short little laugh. "Well, Le Police International has to think about wider… -Possibilities. Most of what I know isn't caving, it's climbing. I even took it up as a hobby, spending the summer in the Pyrenees, hanging by my claws over some lethal drop." She smiled. "And then there was the Talisman we found in Svalbard, I…" She paused, having to divert her attention to shifting along their heaviest and final pieces of equipment. Over it went, Carmelita about to toss the rope over only to pause. "That paw-hold is too high for the bunnies."
Lt Vixen on the other side paused, scanning around before nodding. "While we can," she agreed, Jack holding the rope and being pulled across. Judy quickly followed, catching the rope as it was tossed and then Carm edging her way over as well. All four reunited, they carried on.
"I got a crash course in cave exploration to check on that site," she said. "And experience following up to help rub it in."
"What kinds of exotic places were thieves hiding in for that then?" Judy asked.
"Funnily enough," she breathed out. "It was back home, in Paris." She gave a look over at Judy. "We may not have a giant underground cavern, but we have plenty of tunnels. Same in Rome. Enough for bats to make homes in some, enough for criminals to hide in others." She looked forward. "Enough for mammals to get lost and die in them, or for a criminal to hide the bones where they'll never be found again." She gave a shrug. "At least there though they'll be in good company."
Judy turned up, words forming on her mouth only to fade. Instead she carried on, the stream coming up again. This time dribbling and sloughing down the upper cliff, a wide but shallow set of channels cut in.
"Seems we're getting our paws wet for this one," Lt Vixen said, shining the light down and doing her best to walk across the dry areas of the stream bed. On they followed, Jack taking his time to go to the cliff edge and shine his light down.
Judy followed him.
The switch-backing continued somewhat before the path vanished. Instead, there was just the rough walls of the falling cave and the rippling shimmer of the water below.
"That'll have been the main deposit," Lt Vixen said. Looking up, they shined a light along the edges of the cliff, once more small notches and marks of former abodes still just about able to be made out.
"How did they shoot their way down here?" Carmelita asked, looking at her.
"Best guess, they didn't. They threw a heavy net over the tunnel entrance. Waited a few months, years… Then carved their way down. All the way to the motherlode."
"I haven't seen any bones yet," Jack said, as Judy gave Carmelita a look. The vixen shrugged. "Who knows. What I'm more worried about is what happens to this path."
The others looked to her as she stretched out. "If we're lucky, it ends in a tunnel that weaves its way down, around, into the next chamber and those beneath. We just can't see it."
"And I guess if we're unlucky, we'll get to the bottom and we're just at the shore of bat dropping lake," Jack filled in. "We didn't bring a boat, did we?"
"No, we did not," Lt Vixen said. "We did bring a hippo though."
"Gracias," Carmelita smiled.
"I'm certainly he'll enjoy the alkaline bath. That's assuming this even gets down to the shoreline. We might find it used to end on a ledge and they used a timber tower the rest of the way. That or a crane to haul what they wanted up and out. Still, only one way to find out."
She turned and carried on down, Judy back in between the two, following close behind Jack. The hare was pulling out his radio, doing his best to dial in. "Testing, testing…"
"Jack… We co… ver…"
Skye's voice made it out, just. The hare waved up a paw, the others looking to him. "We need to get a booster up, we're losing it."
Lt Vixen shook her head. "We should still be in relay range at the bottom of this. We only have so many, and we'll likely need one in that corner either way."
Jack looked on, unconvinced. "Skye? Skye?" He made his way back out towards the edge, waiting.
"Jack…" The voice came over, mixed with static. "I've got back into the cave entrance, do you hear me?"
"Better," he said. "The path is still holding, but we're going downhill, fast. We're coming up to an underground lake, so might have to turn back. -Either way, see if you can get the Interpol mammals to bring some inflatable rubber dinghies or something. Oh, and maybe a cave diver or two, if they can spare one. -An underground lake would certainly be a place to hide one of these things."
"I'll feed it on," she said. "We've hidden most of our stuff and set up security. -He's here Jack."
The whole group paused, turning to the radio.
"Rattigan, or at least we think… We sent a drone up to the upper sight. The thermal camera picked some figures up. We've parked it, in case someone makes a move down, but he's here. -I told Interpol. They've even pulled in a flying squirrel battalion or something. DB Cooper him out of the back, shoot to kill."
"Got it," Jack said. "Fingers crossed."
"Fingers crossed. And stay safe."
"You too Jack. You too."
"Ahem," he smirked. "My middle name may be Danger, but it is also 'Comes back in one piece'."
"And I thought this generation had silly names… -But seriously…"
"I promise," he said. "And maybe, once this is done, you can come down here as well. I think you'd like it."
"See you soon."
"You too."
He flicked the radio off, breathing out. "So we're in a race then."
"One where the enemy is at the wrong course and doesn't know it," Carmelita said, pushing off again. "Still, no reason to turn back now."
On they marched, Judy siding up to Jack. "Enjoying this then?"
He smiled. "I get why you wanted to be a cop."
"So I could go hunting for an evil artefact in an abandoned bat cave mine?"
He gave a smile. "No, the adventure, the excitement, the…" He gestured around. "I never imagined I'd do something like this, see something like this. You know…" He trailed off. "I said to Skye earlier, that after the last time… -We were done. I'd done my part, I'd been the secret agent." He trailed off. "I crossed that bridge." He felt a soft set of paws on his shoulder, looking over at Judy. "-It's okay, I… But right here? Not too long ago, I'd laugh at the idea that I'd even do something a tenth as mad as this. But now? I'm not sure I can give it up."
"Hey, that's great, I…"
"What about Skye?" he asked, looking at her.
Judy paused.
"To her this was never an adventure, it was a burden, a duty…" He stared off. "She's the sensible one, I don't want to put her through all this I…"
"You know," Judy said softly. "That was kind of why I wanted to be a cop. I mean, I know I didn't expect to be some ring bearing Hoppetses, but even before… I knew that it wasn't action chases, shootouts, the works. It was the long grind, but it had a purpose. It was a duty, one I wanted. To help mammals, to make the world a better place."
Judy looked at him. "I can think of no-one better to make hers a better one than you. You two will find a way. I'm sure of it."
"Thanks," he said.
"Besides, you've already changed so much, that last little bit shouldn't be anything," she smiled.
Jack smiled too as they carried on down. Deeper into the depths of the earth.
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The binturong looked on, studying the raccoon sprawled across the couch in front of her. He didn't pay her much attention, instead just studying his claws, occasionally adjusting the paintbrushes stuck up his nostrils.
"So," she began. "Mr Wobble…"
"Wibble Wobble," he smiled back, "I believe I could have your licence for that."
"My apologies, Wibble Wobble," she began. "So, is there anything you'd like to talk about today?"
He looked up into the corner of the room, shrugging. "Not really."
"And yet you're here."
"Not by my choice," he said, raising a finger up at her.
"Right, right," she said, nodding along as she scribbled out a few notes, pen tapping against the paper. "And whose choice is it, would you say?"
"Well, my friends… -Using that term very understatedly there, have gotten to the point where they're forcing me here under the most underpawed tactics. Can you believe that?"
"I'm certain they have your best interests at…"
"-Yeah, yeah, I know that," he cut in, glancing at her before staring back, away. "I know that."
She let a silence settle for a bit. "Do you, now?"
"Yes…" He spoke, turning to stare at her.
A few claw scratches against the carpet and she responded. "Do they know that about you?"
His ears pulled back a little before he shook his head.
"Let me put forward a hypothesis," she carried on. "You're here because you know something that they feel they need to know. Something absolutely tearing you apart. Something they feel needs to be shared, but you're terrified of sharing because you know it'll hurt them. For the greater good, you need to keep it to yourself, and your reaction to them, and them to you, is entirely based around this misunderstanding. This thing that they're not getting. Hence your… protests about being sent here. Am I correct?"
"Well done Doc, I'd say you've got about the sum of it. Only problem is, it's not them here, it's me, and…"
"-And you need help squaring this circle."
His brow furrowed. "No, I'm fine, I'm…"
"You go by the name Wibble Wobble, have a pair of underpants on your head and two paintbrushes up your nose. That's amongst a whole catalogue of other behaviours. Lying to your friends to protect them, that's a choice. Lying to yourself, now that's a problem."
"And what if the truth is worse?"
"It doesn't matter if it is, it isn't, if it's the same… -It's there, none the less. If a ship has a hole in it, it has a hole in it, nothing can change that. -But ignoring it will always be worse."
"Yeah, well you don't know it."
"Well, tell me?"
He gave a chuckle, glancing at her. "Now, here's the thing," he said. "If I do, you won't believe it."
"How can you be…"
"You won't." He stared at her, his tail brushing up. "Shall I start by mentioning that it involves time travel? Hmmmm? That's a good start. Now what do you think?"
She settled back, silent for a few seconds. "I think that we as mammals… We're a lump of thinking jelly meat stuck in here," she pointed to her head, "that only gets information in from a set of highly limited sensory detectors, that is constantly rewiring itself on the fly, doubly rewiring itself when we're sleeping, is in a constant analogue chemical bath that can go absolutely awry… And is constantly trying to save space by filtering out what is important, what isn't. It's a whole crazy juggling competition, and weird things can happen. To the lump of thinking meat that is you, all of you, a fault, a bad reshuffle, a jiggle around inside… It can create things that feel as real and true as the here and now, but never happened."
"So you think I'm mad."
She cocked an eyebrow. "You're lying down in my office, calling yourself Wibble Wobble, while wearing a pair of underpants on your head and stating that something is wrong, but you don't want to talk about it. Which conveniently tells me that it's something you very much need to talk about. I know it, your friends know it, and you know it too. And yet you don't want to, so you keep avoiding the subject, throwing things out, etcetera etcetera, all while it eats at you. So, seeing as the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result… You tell me?"
He looked back at her, shrugging. "You're wrong, by the way."
Dr Amy nodded forward, paw gesturing out for him to continue.
"About us just being a bit of meat jelly. Souls exist. I've seen them as ghosts, and said ghosts being weaponised by a voodoo priestess."
"Exciting life you seemed to have lived."
"Thank you," he smiled.
"I'd love to hear more."
"Oh would you," he looked over. "Did you also know I was a thief. -Greatest thief in the world, descended from the greatest thieves in the world. Generation after generation, training the next, sharing a millenia of old texts, techniques, intelligence. Back and back and back, to the very first written words. Sprawling across the globe, that was my birthright."
"And you didn't want that?"
He barked out a laugh. "Are you crazy? All the stories my father told me, all the ancient pictures, text. All the training taking place, from before I could remember. All that, and just let it end!? It was my destiny."
The binturong smiled. "You didn't answer my question."
"Yes, I did want it!" he cut in, arms out. "More than anything," he gave her a stare. "I would be eight years old when I'd truly take on the mantle, inherit the book, begin the training fully. I remember the party my father gave me, inviting some of the local children, all that fun and some of the presents and… -It was nothing, nothing, compared to what was coming that night. What I expected. What came…" His expression hardened. "Five of them. Even if only their leader, that monster, that thing, could have done it by himself. I always thought of it as a group effort, but looking back, it was just him… Breaking in, slaughtering my mother, massacring my father, tearing my birthright apart and leaving me there, cowering, in a cupboard alive and terrified until the cops came to haul me off the orphanage. Dumping me there, expecting just like him that without the tutelage, without the ancient notes, I'd amount to nothing. Just… Just grow up to be some petty gangster or a wage slave or something. Well I showed them all, I went to each of them and defeated them, took back what was mine, I proved them… I proved him wrong."
The binturong began making some notes. "These friends you mentioned, they were from the orphanage, correct?"
"Yeah."
She nodded. "And all this, it's about 'him', is it?"
"I see that PHD of yours is working wonders."
"Why thank you," she smiled. "Want any snacks, popcorn…" He gave a snort as she shrugged back. "Never mind then…" She tapped her pen on the pad a few times. "Do you know why he attacked?"
"Oh yeah."
"Go on…"
He took a breath in, glancing at her. "He… Clockwerk… Thousands of years waiting, just waiting, envying my family, despising it, wishing to not only destroy it but to prove it as nothing. Destroy our records, destroy our book, leave the last one alive and show… Show that without those, he was a nothing. He wanted to… He wanted to prove a point."
"And those friends of yours, they know this too?"
"They were there when he spelled it out for me, on the day I avenged my family," Sly said.
The binturong nodded. "And has anything changed since?"
"Nothing," he muttered, "not really…"
"-Tell me about the time travel."
He blinked, ears going up. "What?"
"You mentioned time travel, saying it was a whole part of this. I'd like to hear about that. What went on, what happened?"
"After… After defeating them, a lot happened. For years, things settled down, until they started going wrong again. One of my friends was working on time travel with his girlfriend. She then went missing, starting to work with one of my father's old enemies, someone who blamed my father for his father's arrest and so wanted to take it out against me. Against my family."
"-The one who killed your father, does he have any family? Loved ones?"
"I…" Sly shuffled, frowning, silent. "I… I don't know," he finally said.
"Right, carry on."
"This skunk, with the help of the mouse who betrayed us… -Not of her own volition mind you. That's something we learnt very recently, changed a whole lot of stuff…"
"What kind of stuff?"
"Well, now rather than letting me mind my own business he's pushed me into this to 'sort my problems' out so we can solve what we're doing now and go off and rescue her."
"And you're helping him out by delaying, obfuscating, etcetera…"
"You don't know what I went through!" Sly hissed, standing up and marching over. "None of them do, and if they did! If they did, well… Well… -Well Wobble it!" He threw his paws up into the air before sitting back down.
"So," she carried on, slowly, calmly. "You went back in time."
…
"Wibble Wobble?"
"Yeah, I did," he waved off. "-And it's Sly. Sly Cooper." He plucked the paintbrushes out of his nostrils and began tearing the underpants off his head.
"Wibble Coo…"
"Oh be serious for a moment," he snarled, glaring at her.
"My apologies."
"And you don't need to do that too," he muttered. "Come on, just come out and say what an idiot I am, what a waste of time, etcetera, etcetera…"
"I think you're clearly someone in major need of psychiatric help," she said softly. "You're just scared about whatever awful truth exists, that you can't tell others, that if you acknowledge yourself… It changes who you are."
The room was silent.
"I knew about someone," she began. "Someone like you. -He had a daughter, he loved her, loved her so much that he risked his life to save her from an accident when she was young. He grew up, raised her… It was tough, they had to move a lot, she struggled to make friends. Especially when she got older, she began talking about how lonely she was. -And when she got older, he began having problems. Wouldn't say what it was, acted like you. And in the end he managed to get out his awful truth. She'd had an older sister. An older sister sat just a little further away, so he'd got the little one first… And on getting out, there was no way to go back for her."
She took a breath in and out. "He'd rationalised it before, but seeing her loneliness gnaw at her, he began blaming himself. He'd always said that the older sister had died straight away, what difference did it make, nothing changed for her. Other than that her father hadn't tried harder to save someone who she'd grow up with, who'd mean she never would be lonely. He thought that if she knew the truth, she'd hate him. In the end, when she found out, she didn't at all. She didn't even forgive him. She thanked him."
"Did he get them into the accident in the first place?"
"Depends how you mean that," she said.
"Go on, tell me."
"How about you tell me about this time travel stuff first."
"Well, skunk fellow tried to erase my family from existence so I followed him. Back through time, place to place, meeting and fighting alongside the ancestors who were in that book, in the records, meeting them face to face. Knights and outlaws, cavemammals and ninja's."
"Did you enjoy meeting your heroes?"
A smile grew on his face. "Yeah, it was good."
"Was he there?"
"What, skunky…"
"No, him."
Sly snapped to her. "How…" He closed himself off for a second before the level gaze coaxed him on. "We didn't notice it at first, but then… -Yeah, always there, before even the records themselves. Far away, in the shadows, waiting. Just… Watching… Waiting…"
"What for?"
"In the end, we got back to the present," Sly continued on. "Fighting that skunk, in the end I… I was caught in his machine as he set it to self destruct, thrown back through the timeline. For all intents and purposes, I could have been thrown into the core of the earth or out into deep space, but I ended up in ancient Egypt. Alone. No support, no resources, just my wits and skills."
"So you didn't get a chance to reunite with your father?"
"I…" Sly's ears perked up before he looked down, wiping his face. "No… No, I… We didn't…" He pinched his brow.
"I think he'd understand, forgive you…"
"Do you now?" the raccoon snarked.
"I haven't heard anything bad about him so far, -apart from being the master thief and stitching up someone else's…"
"He didn't stitch Le Paradox's father up, he outplayed him," Sly growled. "Big difference."
"My apologies. To you and Mr Cooper."
"Conner."
"Hmmm?"
"Conner Cooper, that's his name. Very good name. Met a silverfox who chose Conner as his name as well. They'd have gotten along, I think we all would, I…" He shook his head.
"Let's move ourselves back to Ancient Egypt shall we?"
"Very well then. Ancient Egypt! What to say, what to say… After the initial culture shock I spent the first few months handling myself pretty well. As you can imagine, a very basic people, not much in the way of security, lots in the way of things to steal. Barter…"
"Still, you must have stood out," the binturong said.
"Yeah, yeah…" he shrugged off. "Probably a good thing. I knew my friends, in the present, they still had some level of the tech. I still had mine. Worst case, I screw up enough things for them to notice the change and send themselves back for a rescue. Best case… Well, my family had records going back to that time, that era… -Roughly. I wondered if I might meet up with one of my ancestors from then. Not that it was a good chance, by a long shot. I mean, by the time I got to ancient egypt, a lot of the egypt was already ancient if you get where I'm coming from. Still, a raccoon could hope. A raccoon could dread."
"Him again?"
"Sure, he'd held off all those other occasions, waiting for his appointed time or whatever. But maybe he genuinely had been weaker back then, or just always overestimated our strength, I didn't know but… Me, alone, in the desert. I've often wondered why he didn't just drop a rock on me from high up, and those feelings resurfaced. Here I was, back in his domain, not like I had a shock pistol and jetpack to fend him off."
"Did you ever see him?"
"I never saw Clockwerk."
"Still, being there, at risk from this monster of your past. In an unfamiliar environment, I can understand your concern."
Sly let out a short laugh. "Yeah, no. I… Over time there, I began getting the hang of the language. Though I had bigger plans… Or ideas. Back when I was in the present, I'd heard of these big dams being built in eastern Turkey. Flooding caves, cities, cave cities and such. I thought that, well, if I get there, hide as many hints and clues as I could for the archaeologists to find, it might be a way of getting that information out to my friends. So, another whole language to learn, plus getting there… Though that wasn't going to be too hard. I was spending most of my time in Alexandria. -Well, not Alexandria, it was too early for that. I don't know how too early, but…" He shrugged. "Traders came and went, I figured I could easily sail with a bunch of bulls on their ships to Crete, or these, I kit you not, wolf-sized mini-elephants to their island, but after that… -Regardless, I was left to wait, ponder, sample the local cuisine and… -Hey, that reminds me. I grabbed some Silphium seeds and cuttings and completely forgot about them. That stuff lives up to the hype…" He gave a broad smile, licking his lips.
"I'll take your word for it," she said, scribbling her notes down.
"Regardless," he said, "one of the things I was able to do once I'd figured out more of the language was to do simple magic tricks. Say I was from the far, far eastern lands, show off some homemade gunpowder… I was genuinely invited to some birthday parties to show it off!"
"I suppose a raccoon showing up conjuring fire in hieroglyphics would bring about some attention in the present," she said, smiling.
"And yeah, that was one of my ideas… The Great Cooper. Though that didn't translate too well to Ancient Egyptian, so I was the Great Kuhnnhah. And it did. I'd got a small hut by this point, wasn't even that reliant on thieving, when there was a knock on the door." He looked off, smiling. "A pair of small camel kids, they said an 'Athenian' had come to visit."
"Was Athens a thing at this point?"
"Don't know. I assumed so and didn't think any of it. -Though I was a bit surprised at what species arrived… -Have you ever met a sentient reptile?"
"I've seen one, two…"
"Uh-hu, and a sentient bird?"
"No."
"Yeah, right. I suppose I'm 'lucky' in that regard."
"Was 'he' one?"
"Clockwerk? Yeah. And a few after, I…" He pulled his fingers down his head. "Though I'm certain in the strictest sense, Clockwerk wasn't a bird. He could have been anything, to begin with at least. After that, after starting his vendetta, after replacing his body with metal…" Sly worked his mouth a few times. "As it turned out, this guy was a sentient bird too. But again, maybe not by our definitions."
"What do you mean…"
"He wasn't from this planet."
Dr Amy slowly nodded. "Right…"
"He wasn't even from this dimension, I don't think. But he looked like a large owl. -Not an eagle owl," he shook his head. "No. Bit of barn, bit of great tufted, he had the fun feather things sticking out…" Sly pulled at the ends of his eyebrows. "I remember looking at him, confused as he bowed, then even more so as he gave a peck at the end of my nose. He wasn't happy. 'It seems you might have an excuse for messing around with time, not that I have to like it.'" Perfect french. Turns out he had an auto translator that honed in on my native tongue, in this case choosing french. I was wary at first. Who was this guy? Some kind of time police? He then laughed, no, he wasn't. At which point I mentioned something about them not being there to stop Le Paradox trying to erase me and my family from existence."
Sly stared off. "He didn't know about who Le Paradox was, or anything. He was a historian." He turned to her. "Get that, a historian. Or rather, an 'archiver'. An academic. From a different time, a different universe. But that was what he did, recording and studying the histories of other worlds, other dimensions. He went back, made notes, studied. It was his job, hobby, etcetera… I'd missed members of my own family, but got back in time to bump into this guy, who offered me a way home. Mr Kuhnnhah, he said. He had his ship, or whatever, that he used to travel between times, between dimensions. He'd cloaked it out in the desert but agreed to take me to it. Use some of its energy to take me to this time, before using what was left to go home and refuel. I… I was honoured, and so we set off. For him, it would have been easy, but for me? For me…"
He shrugged. "Well, just a long trek. On and on, in the middle of summer. We passed the time talking, a little. I mentioned a few of the great mysteries of our history, things for him to check out. He talked about the war. Of his home dimension, for the powers of magic, held within these jewels. Apparently there are plenty of our species over there, only… Evolved, differently, like him. Magic running through them. Battle hardened Echidna's, some mammals who can race at supersonic speeds… A tyrant, converting innocents into robots, marching on, burning the world where he can. Owl guys race, a guardian race, they've moved into hiding. Trying to undo the damage of this…"
"Was this why he was here in our universe?" she asked. "Trying to find weapons, recruits…"
Sly shook his head. "He helped with the technology, the materials, etcetera… But… He was a historian." He shook his head. "Just an airheaded scholar. -I had to ask if he wanted my help in that war. He was genuinely curious as to why. Again, he wasn't there to intervene, he was there to observe. Once history was written, it was a true sin to try and unwrite it. -It's why they didn't just go back in time and shoot Dr Robot Git or whatever as a baby." He gave a small chuckle. "He looked grumpy when I told him the plot of the Terminator movies, I…"
"-As for me, I just explained the basics of who I was, Le Paradox… -I didn't mention Clockwerk though, didn't see a reason to. He was gone. Or would be, once I got back here, I… I did wonder if he was one of these guys kind who'd been roboticized or…" Sly gave a shrug. "I planned to try and get Bentley and co in contact, see if we could help, I could ask then I…"
He wiped his paws away at his face. "Finally, we came upon his vessel. Big flying… square kinda thing, all cloaked up and sitting on the dunes on a set of landing legs. It shimmered on the outside, but when I got in… -The coppery metals and stuff, the style… Something began to tick in the back of my mind, I… I didn't put it together to begin with, but… -Ever been in an office as a lightning storm rolls in, and you can't see out, you just know it's there, hovering over, you can feel the energy in the air. Know something is coming up."
"Not exactly no," she said, "but I understand the feeling."
"Yeah. And as he activated the engines, began to charge up, I began to feel it more and more," Sly said. "All as he carried on acting air-headed… He mentioned 'the life boats', essentially just long lasting stasis booths that would keep you alive indefinitely. In case there was a critical engine failure or something, he'd step in and set them for the year three-thousand AD or so on… Mentioned that were he lazy he might just set mine for Two-Thousand or whatever and leave me in a sand dune. But… -I saw them. They were made out of the same material as Clockwerk, they looked like him, I…" He looked down, seeing his paws trembling.
"-I kept saying to myself, maybe Clockwerk was just one of their kind, or… -But when I got to the control room, I saw him there, inspecting his leg. His robotic leg. I asked him, what was that… And he went off about how some mammals, a 'dog' of what kind I don't know for instance, had been partially roboticized for aiding a freedom fighter before the process was stopped. How they had robotic legs and things just worked after that. I… -He went on about how they were working at length on reversing the process, finding a way to free the victims, about how some of the scholars had volunteered for partial conversions too to help advance their sciences I… -They'd even managed to get some fully back."
He looked at her, shaking his head. "He laughed as he said it wasn't love as the poets said that had been key to bringing them back. Those who'd returned, the burning light they'd found and latched on to, to return them… That hot little nugget, powering them eternally. Hate. Hate at their enemies, hate at those who'd done this to them, just… Hate. The prime ingredient in everlasting life or whatever. I'd asked him what his name was before, he just gave this unpronounceable set of words or… -I asked him what they meant. 'Mechanism of time keeping'. That was the closest literal translation. Clockwork. Clockwerk… It was him, it was him right there in front of me. The demon in the night, the monster who slaughtered my family, who I battled, who I defeated, but who promised that I would NEVER be rid of him because he was superior and here he was. Here he was, the fawn Hirschler in the crib, and I…"
…
"Sly?"
…
"I did what I had to do." He looked up at her. "One flick of my cane, with a much more powerful flash powder. I stunned him. I then hit him on the back of the head to knock him out before tying him up and gagging him so he wouldn't be able to use any of his voice commands. I flew that ship over the great pyramids and set it down, releasing one of the life-pods after setting the distress call, unlock code and release time as close as I could to what I needed… It all went so fast, I… I set the machine to use ALL of its power to go back, go back so far I don't think mammals existed, I don't think LIFE existed. And as the world just throbbed and shook and as my body just…" He wiped his paws over his face. "I saw that monster look at me… -I saw the same thing that tortured and killed my parents. I told him straight, laughing. Our line would ALWAYS be superior to Clockwerk. We'd won, the greatest thieves of all time. He was over, gone, I was going back to a world without him, the 'Great Kunnhahh.' or whatever, victorious! I raced out not looking and jumped out, all as he vanished back. Gone."
…
"I cried. I cried with joy as I set the booth up. I was going to see my friends again. My family again. My father, my mother, I… dressed myself up as a proper mummy, just a bit of fun, you know, for my friends when they discovered me once more. As I knew they would. I knew they would. I set the homing signal to the one used by the communicators we used. I touched wood, went in and… -Next thing I knew I was walking out to see a very confused Dr Padriach Rattigan in front of me, holding something very Clockwerky. At first he was confused, then terrified as he learnt who I was. So I raced forward, nabbed that thing, showed them who was boss and raced out into the night. Into Zootopia! I soon learned my friend's were in town, all of them… Only…"
…
"Clockwerk wasn't gone, my parents still were. Nothing had changed. Nothing."
…
"So…" the binturong began. "You feel you got the wrong person, you…"
"No." Sly shook his head, looking at her. "I wish it was. I wish I… It's far worse than that. At first it was only small realisations, me still fearing they'd hate me for doing what I did. And then… Then I saw that night, the night that changed my life, through his own eyes." He stared at her. "I should have known, I should…"
She noticed his paws trembling and slowly moved forward, just in case.
"Sent back all that way, marooned, betrayed… -I'd drained all the energy from all the other pods as well. Who knows, it might have been so far back they could have never brought him forward. But he still had his tools. And his mind. And his hate, the hate for the one who did this to him. -Part of him was already metal, robot, so what if more of him was? And more, and more, doing what he had to do to survive. And then lasting however long, however much time he was, all alone. Waiting for our species to even evolve, before… -He still had some part of him though, he still had knowledge. Hate was what brought others back, and boy did he have a reason to hate. No wonder he built himself around it, no wonder he was fueled by it, driven by it. All this time, waiting, waiting to see this raccoon family form, watching its members, those he was smote for so they could live in glory. On and on and on, no wonder he hated them. Despised them. I… -I expect there's nothing left of that innocent… brilliant… seed as it were, left inside what monster it became but… It knew what it needed to do. Both to bring down the Cooper line, and…"
She gently brought over a tissue, letting him dab his cheek. "How long was it. Billions of years? All after the great Kunnhahh did that to him, fresh from his battle with Le Paradox. All that time waiting, not to get revenge on the innocent Cooper's before, oh no. He still had his faith or standards or whatever. Don't change the words already written. It wasn't going to be them, it was going to be the one, the one who did this to him. Right after the deed. Just needed to remember his name, that was all. What was it? Kunnhahh… Kunnahh… Kunnaahh… Kuhhhnaa… Kuuhhhnnnnaaa… Kooohhhnnnnarrr… Cooohhhnarr… Cooohhnar… Cohnnar… Cohnar… Conner…"
…
"Conner Cooper." Sly said with finality. "However many billions of years he waited, he came so close. So, so close. One generation out. One single generation out, so instead of killing me, I cast him forward to murder my own parents."
A resounding silence filled the room, the bearcat nodding a little. Sly just sitting there, jerking his head a little.
She looked up to meet with his cocking eyes.
"What?" he finally asked.
"I'm not sure if I'm following you."
"-You know I was expecting the yelling, the throwing out, the screaming that I really am a worthless parent-murdering piece of trash," Sly continued, "and maybe I was hoping, odd against odd, that you might offer a hug or something…"
"-A hug?"
"Yeah, holding on, gently cradling, 'there there's', the ones my mother used to give, before she got killed. Haven't felt anything like that since I was seven so maybe a little bit of me was looking forward to that, not that I deserved it, not that I wouldn't throw you off or anything. But tell me, Doctor, what's your game right here?"
She froze, pen just off her pad. "What game do you think I'm playing?"
"I…" Finally he chuckled, throwing his paws up in the air. "Naturally you think I'm all making this up, that I'm all crazy and cuckoo and Lalala. So it wasn't…"
"Mr Cooper," she said, cutting in.
"Ah, here it comes."
"Given that you came to this hospital, came into my therapy room, wore your pants on your head, two paintbrushes up your nose and called yourself Wibble Wobble, can you blame me for thinking that?"
"Touche," he said, standing. "And you know what, I've just proven that getting help wasn't worth it. Just a whole waste of my time, so if you'll bid me adieu…"
"Not so fast," she said, smiling.
"Well, I…"
"Let's say it is true," she cut in, walking over. "I think there's certainly things to still talk about then. And, if it isn't, then let's just say there's going to be something very interesting behind what you've just said."
Sly held off, just a little, as the binturong gestured him back down to the couch. "You've come this far Mr Cooper, and it is undoubted that what you've recalled was traumatic. Difficult. I can underside why you struggled to get it out in the first place and…"
"No, you don't," he said, folding his arms and walking back over, staring down at her. "First off, did you have your back snapped by Clockwerk's robotic beak as you stepped in and tried to remove his Hate Chip? Were you confined to a wheelchair for the rest of your life because of it? Hmmm? I mean, Bentley certainly believed it was a worthy sacrifice to stop Clockwerk coming back forever. Maybe not so much now that he apparently has a ton of backups and the same rat who tore up your city is trying to bring him back under the vain idiotic misapprehension that he can somehow take over him and become a god. But, on learning that his 'besty' was the one who created that monster in the first place… Knowing that all this time he's been helping the one ultimately at fault for his own pain and suffering, that he trusted him, that he loved him, that he's broken him out of prison and rescued him from gas chambers and helped him on every heist all his life. That he gave up a potential life as a worldchanging scientist, that he chose to live the life of a criminal, that he felt he should throw it in with me, when I am responsible for the greatest evil on earth. Yeah, just… -Just think about it for a moment. Shouldn't be too difficult, you probably won't need that PHD, just running on Kitnergarten levels of energy will do…"
"What happened when that other mammal betrayed him?"
Sly stood there, blinking. "What!?"
"You said that on your travels his girlfriend betrayed him…"
"She was brainwashed, she still is…"
"-Before you learnt that," she carried on. "How did he react…"
"Shocked, heartbroken, how do you expect?"
"And when he learnt the truth?"
"It… It broke him," the raccoon said. "He was crying, I did my best to console him, I… -What does this even have to do with me?"
"It's about learning what kind of friend you have, to see whether the likelihood is he'll understand the tragedy that took place and can forgive you, or not."
"I… Well if…"
"Not well if," she cut in. "Just the facts. Has he forgiven anyone before? Made good with anyone who hurt him before?"
"Well, not him, but…"
"So he did make good with a person who harmed your group, harmed you, or am I…"
"We've pulled past enemies onto our missions before, but…"
"So he's very open to it," she cut in. "Which makes me think that that isn't the issue, that…"
"-That you haven't been listening," he barked, standing up, tail abrush. "Wha…"
"-I think you'll find I have been listening," she cut in. "You have a friend who has forgiven multiple people who've wronged him before, who is clearly intelligent, and who you feel will not forgive you because you made a panicked response under clearly intense circumstances which you feel led to someone incidentally hurting him. Mr Cooper, I have certainly been listening. It's not that you don't think he will forgive you. Look into your heart, I'm certain you know he will. But that it's you who needs to forgive yourself."
"Well I don't want to."
"Why not?"
"Well, for a start because I killed my parents…"
"No you didn't. Clockwerk did."
"Well I created Clockwerk! I took a genius, a brilliant person, someone who helped me… And I subjected him to a fate worse than death. I turned him into that monster."
"So you are not guilty of killing your parents. You're only guilty of creating this Clockwerk."
He stared at her, blinking. "And that's somehow better."
"-Than creating him and killing your parents? Yes."
"Oh wow, that makes me feel better, I… -Did you know it turns out Clockwerk had a whole feud with a bunch of Soeviet intelligence officials, hmmm? He had some cannibal cultists doing some shenanigans here, he tortured and murdered some hikers there, blew up a jumbo jet. -Once, to really show those mammals who was boss and to stop them trying to mess with him, he decided to rip open a nuclear reactor for the funsies. You may have heard of that one, hmmmm? -There was apparently a highly inaccurate mini-series recently."
"Again, Clockwerk's deeds are Clockwerk's deeds."
"-And I created him," Sly spat. "I made him what he was, I did that!"
"By accident, in panic…"
"-As if that's a defence!" he shouted, throwing his arms up.
"I would say in criminal law it certainly is somewhat of a defence. I've handled mammals for who it certainly is. In so many cases, it's all the same. The guilt, the blaming, the eternal what-if's. And ultimately I say the same thing every time. The part of you blaming yourself is your mammal brain, the bit that can think over, assess, rationalise this. But the part that acted then and there? The dumb lizard brain at the heart, running on analogue chemicals and designed for one simple uncompromising purpose. To survive. It took over then, it did what it thought it had to do to take this enemy on and stop him."
"Oh, so you're saying I didn't do it then?"
"No. You panicked, you weren't thinking straight, you are a mammal like any other."
"No," he said, turning around and kicking the door. "I'm the one who created Clockwerk."
"No," she said. "Clockwerk is the one who created you."
"He… -No, it was my…"
"Would you have done what you did that night if you hadn't, as you put it, watched this monster tear apart your parents in front of you?"
Sly stood, looking at her. "What does it matter?"
"It matters because, at the heart of this, I see a very toxic, very tragic, relationship." She steepled her fingers. "I see a mammal who was undoubtedly traumatised by his worst enemy, but has somehow come to realise that his worst enemy would not have become that were it not for him. And the question goes back thereforth, who started it? Both of you? Neither of you? Was there even an inciting incident, or was it all this long slow slip into hell. Both of you caught, no way out. He's there with you, forever. But you are for him, too. And in such cases, who started it doesn't matter. Who took the escalating steps, doesn't matter. Often, looking back doesn't matter. It just retreads over painful ground and salts the wound even more. What matters, Mr Cooper, is accepting that this is the way it is, and doing what needs to be done next."
Sly looked at her, slowly shaking his head. "I… I saw his mind, I saw him ripping my father apart and loving it. He fully believed my father was the one who hurt him, fresh back, he rubbed it in while he pleaded ignorance. My father, my mother, those on the mountain and those on the plane and those on the turbine hall roof, they all died clueless to what sin they had done. Because they hadn't done any sin, it was my sin, how can I ever repay that?"
"Are there survivors? Survivors that know…"
"-There's my friend," Sly shrugged. "This poor guy and his friend who both think I am god's gift to earth for what I did, there's…"
"And if you confess to them, let them judge, and they forgive you?"
Sly snorted, shaking his head. "Like I'd…"
"You wish to forgive yourself, yes?" She pressed. "I'm giving you a way to do so."
"Not a very nice way."
She shrugged. "If it was, would it be worth it? Would it work? If you want to get better, you'll have to work for it."
He looked away.
"-So, either you don't want to work for it, which given your… -Clear skills and persistence, I don't think is the case, or you don't want to get better, which I think very much is."
He gave her a glare.
"As I said, no-one is at fault here, you're caught together in a trap, creating each other, locked and…"
"-So in terms of badness we can just average it out then. I mean, our kill rate is still in the thousands so…"
"Have you asked them to put you over their knee and tan your butt?"
"...WHAT!?"
She shrugged. "You obviously believe you are unworthy of care from your friends and deserve punishment for your actions. Have you requested that they force you into time out? Ground you? Extra chores? Physically discipline you? Spankings, whips, paddles, I'm certain that your intelligent friends can design and build an automatic device that will confine you and subject you to repeated consistent corporal chastisements. There's also…"
"-Can I just confirm that I'm the patient here, you're the doctor?"
"Yes, Wibble Wobble," she said, looking up at him. "And given your reaction to my question, can you now see how absurd your desire to punish yourself is?"
"I…" he looked away, the skin in his ears flushing. "-First off you sound like my ex planning a special anniversary night in, -second, I… Uh…"
"Would she blame you, for all this, believe you need punishment or…"
"She'd probably agree to build a private personal prison for me, I'm certain she'd finally enjoy locking me up, feeding me bread and water every day, the works…"
"By your tone…" She began.
"Fine, fine, but that doesn't matter! They're not the ones harmed by this. They're…"
"You said you 'saw your parents last moments'," she said. "Not just yourself, but through him, too. I understand if this is uncomfortable or traumatic, but… Were they scared for you, were they trying to make sure you survived, or…"
"They spent their last moments fearing I'd be next," he muttered. "Not that I didn't deserve it, not that they shouldn't have sold me out…"
"Except I'm certain that even if they had known what you'd do, that wouldn't be the case. Would it? They'd want you to live, thrive, survive…"
"I've wondered what my Dad would think of me more times than you can imagine," Sly said.
"And what would he think of you now? Beating yourself up, blaming yourself, cutting off your friends, your family. Would he be saying 'good'. Would he be saying 'that's right?'. Your mother, too. What would they think? What would they all think? If they were here, right here, right now, if they'd listened to all of this, what would they do?"
…
Sly kept silent.
The therapist waited.
"They'd say they still loved me. Chin up. Smile on my face. They'd come in and hold me tight."
She smiled, nodding. "Whoever this Clockwerk represents, whatever terrible thing has gone on between you, between him, whatever horrible cycle of violence we need to get you out of… This is the path your parents would want you to take. In their memory, do it for them. Mend the bridges with your friends, tell the truth. To them, to this 'Clockwerk' if he comes back as you say he might. It's a weight you will always have to carry, but it is important to know that by the sound of it there are those who would be more than ready to help carry the weight."
Sly gave a small laugh. "You know, I'm still not much of a fan of this…"
"Wounds take time to heal."
"Yeah, yeah. -I'm curious though, what do you think it actually represents. Clockwerk, time travel… -I mean I know it's all real, but you?"
"I have my theories," she said. "Were you at or around city hall, did you have friends there? May I ask what you thought about Rattigan's messages?"
"So you think I bought in, got some friends to go down to city Hall, got them killed, maybe me promoting some of these things got someone else on the train, only they thought that raccoons were the evil crazy ones… What with our long scary thin finger things…" He wiggled his paws about.
"Who knows?" She smiled. "But I'm certain it will be a long, challenging, but ultimately healing journey in order to unpack and discover what it really is."
"Yeah, yeah."
"And were I allowed to, I'd certainly give you that hug you obviously really need."
"I…"
She chuckled as he gave a bashful glance down.
"Yeah, I'll… I'll go and tell my friends, get them hugs…"
"Uh-hu, I'm certain that when they come and visit it'll be more than worth it."
"Yeah, and…" He paused. "When they…" He smiled. "Ah, I see where you're getting at. Understand. Anyway, I think our time here is at an end. Might go back into the yard, just… -Stretch my legs a bit. Anyway, thanks, this wasn't totally pointless."
"I'm glad you can agree," she said, watching as he made it to the reinforced door to her office, opening it up and turning to face four rhino's in security gear, the female coyote guard decked out in front of them, tranquiliser in paw.
"...Hello there," he said, turning back. "You brought some friends."
"Well," she said. "I thought it prudent given that you clearly broke into a mental hospital, faked a mental illness to get here…"
"-Seemed to have people on the outside hack our systems," the coyote guard said.
"Hey… -As you can see, and she can attest," he pointed back at the Binturong. "I really needed help."
"Indeed you do," the binturong doctor said. "Now, we've found a room ready for you and will set you up as a proper patient. For your and our safety you'll be searched, have your claws trimmed, and we do reserve the right to use medical restraints, muzzles, etcetera."
"Okay, one. Please talk to my ex, ever. Two… -I meant don't talk…"
"I know what you meant."
"-Three. All that, on a little itty bitty raccoon. Don't you think that's you enjoying it too much?"
"That would be the cavity search and stay in the isolation room Wibble Wobble," the coyote said, holding out a pair of white padded medical pawcuffs. "Which, if you behave, we'll be able to avoid."
"And if not?"
"We're very good with high level, high spec, long lasting tranquilisers. Now, can you put your paws in front of you, Wibble?"
Sly chuckled, paws out. "Just how high spec are you talking?"
The answer came from behind him as the Binturong began packing up her notes. "High enough that we've very grateful for the extensive collection of incontinence pads at our disposal."
He gave her a look as his cuffs were done up. "Et tu?"
"Mr Cooper, don't worry, everything will be okay."
He nodded. "I know. For me."
And with that the door closed, the binturong letting out a breath and shaking her head. "Had you been during my daytime hours that would have been a highlight," she chuckled, checking the time and…
A sudden flash ripped out outside followed by a sharp cracking bang. Screams and shouting erupted, the binturong racing out of the door and turning to see the guards lying down or stumbling to get up, the raccoon they'd been escorting nowhere to be seen. She grabbed the nearest security alarm and pressed it tight. "Highly dangerous raccoon patient on the loose. We need him captured. Call in the ZPD immediately."
An affirmative response came, the binturong walking out to check the guards. It seemed they'd just been flashbanged, the coyote guard left with the cuffs on her lap… -Or at least until a red fox very unstealthily stole them and threw them up.
Given that everything was designed to non-ligature standards, it didn't get caught anywhere and his proclamation that 'they'd never find it now' rang rather hollow.
It didn't matter, they didn't even bother to deal with him as they cut passed and took off, racing out into the courtyard. Just in time to see the raccoon, a bag over his shoulders, climb straight up the climb-proof lighting towers and leap, balancing impossibly on one of the fence supports before taking off across the rooftops.
"Who even is he!?" the coyote exclaimed, looking down at her.
The binturong just shook her head. "I'm beginning to think the thing about him being the world's greatest thief… Wasn't so much of a delusion."
"You know," a new voice spoke. "Even I'm beginning to think that." They all looked to the red figure inbetween them. "What?"
"Swiper… Put some clothes on."
.
.
With a knock on the door, Bentley looked up to see Sly coming in. The raccoon just stood there, frozen, holding at the threshold before sighing, turning around and sitting on the end of the van.
"I would advise against that, given that the ZPD are now looking for you."
"Well, I…" He paused, taking a breath in, standing up and walking inside, closing the door behind him. He walked up to his friend, collapsing on his knees, just… Stuck there.
Arms hanging by his side, paws shaking.
The terror filled look on his face was briefly jerked away as Bentley lent forwards to hold them.
"It's okay Sly."
"It's not."
"No, it is. I can't think of…"
"-I created him."
…
"You created Clockwerk," Bentley said, as if he was a teacher replaying a kits recollection of a schoolyard dispute to them.
"I… I… -I didn't mean to!"
"I wouldn't expect you to."
Bentley held him tighter as he slumped forward. "I panicked. This… This traveller who found me, helped me, would bring me back home… I realised who he was, thinking I could stop him, strangle him in the crib, I… I'm what created him. There was a brilliant person, I killed him… He turned himself into that thing to survive and get revenge but… -He thought my father was me. That's why…. That's why everything. I'm sorry Bent…"
He was cut off as the turtle hugged him harder. Sly didn't know what else to say. He just let him do it, holding on back.